I would agree with Brian's reasoning, as usual. We were offered a monitoring system several years ago but could not justify the cost with our volume. The one we looked at really did just measure ph. For that an electronic ph meter is much cheaper although you would have to make the adjustments yourself. I have my old Westek set at 5% saponifier and just drain the tanks on Fri. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 6:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Automatic monitoring systems for in line cleaners


Closed loop process control of commercial saponifier is of rather
limited use, IMHO. This is because a saponifier solution is not just a
saponifier but a careful mix of a saponifier and solvents. The balance
is important in the functioning. Control by pH will handle only the
chemical side of the problem and, even then, very badly because of the
buffering, and not the physical side of the solvents becoming saturated.
Refractometry is fine for mixing new solution, but the dissolved and
reacted contaminants will upset it. The only valid way of determining
the efficacity of a saponifier is by titration against an inorganic acid
that can simulate your flux residues and then adding the true buffered
saponifier and solvent components separately, according to the results.

I can promise you that you will be disappointed if you try it :-(

Brian

Tom Gervascio wrote:
> We are considering using an automatic system to monitor and control additions of a saponifier to our Electrovert H400+ wash. Any recommendations on systems that other's have used? Any trade-offs on closed loop monitoring systems using pH versus refractometer? I thought that if you use water soluble masks that the dissolved materials might influence the dissolved solids measured with refractometer. However it seems that drag out with normal operation approaches 7 gal/8 hour shift. with a prewash and wash capacity of 95 gallons this means that over 12 shifts that the wash should be turned over but I suspect that all the material may not be turned over due to dead spots in the construction of the wash (i.e. 2" level in wash below a U joint that connects the prewash to the wash section). That said is location of the sensors critical- i.e. place them in these areas where the wash may be stagnant or items may settle to the bottom of tanks and heaters.
>
> Thanks for the input
>
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