Only way I imagine asking it is if the customer has "worked" the price of the product they pay the CM to such as there are very small profit margins. For the majority of all partnerships what Steve describe is what I have seen as the norm.......
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 1:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RE : [TN] BGA lighting adjustment
Hi Eric!
If this is a ECO to an existing board, then yes, there will be real cost impacts. The new BGA, new PCB, and a new stencil for sure.
As far as charging your customer for things like edits to pick and place programs, I suppose that's something each company will have to decide if that's a standard practice with them or not.
Personally, if I'm already building a board for a customer, and they re-spin the design to use one different part, even if it's switching from say a QFP to a BGA, in the interest of customer relationships, or "partnerships" as we like to say, I'm not going to be so petty as to charge for a vision data change.
Who knows? This part change may be what keeps this product ahead of similar product from other companies, and keeps this CM working for a while longer building this customers product.
While I'm not saying you should give everything away for free, there's charges to me that seem "nit-picky", and those that are justified. If I get hit with a ECO that has 20-part number changes, then yes, there will probably charges for that, because that's a whole different scope of ECO.
I'm not a GSM guy, but I've worked with FUJI, Zevatech (JUKI), Assembleon, Amistar, Dynapert (Yikes!), and also with a Universal OMNI-B, and 2-hours seems like a very long time...doesn't take that long on other machines.
-Steve Gregory-
P.S. Seeing how it's Friday, got a neat little hand/eye coordination test that's fun to take. Go to: http://starterupsteve.servepics.com/swf/hand-eye_sabotage.html
You need to turn your sound up so you can tell if you score on some of the tests. You'll do pretty good if you play video games. If you don't, you'll do like me and stink...hehehe
Happy Halloween!
Happy Halloween to all!!
It seems fair to charge a standard initial tooling price. But if I understand the original statement, this is a new part added to an existing board. Steve, after you have charged the tooling cost, how do you handle changes to the board? Essentially, every part of the process has to be changed or modified with the revision change. Isn’t it fair in this case for the CM to charge the customer for these modifications?
Eric
-----Message d'origine-----
De : TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la part de Steve Gregory
Envoyé : 31 octobre, 2003 11:18
À : [log in to unmask]
Objet : Re: [TN] BGA lighting adjustment
Hi Greg!
They're charging YOU time to create a vision database to place a part on a board they're building for you? WOW!
I gotta say, in the 17-yrs. that I've been in contract manufacturing, that's the first time I've ever heard of that...
We do have a flat NRE charge for initial P & P programming and tooling, but that includes everything, i.e.; Stencils, vision programs for placement, color coded production aids, screen printer programs, reflow oven and wave solder recipes, rework recipes if we need them, ect., ect...
But to have itemized charges for each and every individual facet of the programming needed for manufacturing? Getting a little anal if you ask me...
-Steve Gregory-
technetters,
We recently introduced a 516 pin 1mm BGA on one of our latest boards. Our
EMS provider is trying to charge us 2 hours of line time (for a significant
amount of money) for time spent adjusting the lighting on their GSM cameras.
They claim that the non-uniform ball grid layout was causing recognition
errors at placement. It has been a while since I've worked directly with
P&P equipment, but 2 hours of time seems a ridiculous amount of time to
adjust the cameras. Any thoughts?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Gregory Parke
Senior Manufacturing Engineer
Coriolis Networks
330 Codman Hill Road
Boxborough, MA 01719
Voice: 978-264-1904 x651
Fax: 978-264-1909
[log in to unmask]
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