LEADFREE Archives

September 2003

Leadfree@IPC.ORG

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
"Bernier, Dennis" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)
Date:
Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:35:28 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (345 lines)
The lead test kits are sold by most hardware stores and home centers.  They
use a variety of test means and the requirement is only that the test be
sensitive to greater than 0.5% lead.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Bev Christian [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 6:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Standard Test Method For Determining % Pb in PCAs


Bob,
It has been a while since I bought one, since I live in a new house now,
where there would be no lead paint.  But here in North America, if my memory
serves me at all, they are like a little piece of sandpaper that you rub
across the suspected paint surface. Now here my memory cells are AWOL, I
don't remember if that is all there is to it, or whether you have to do
anything to the swatch of material. I do remember that if there is lead that
it changes color.  Can anyone out there who has recently refurbished an old
house help me out?
Bev

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Willis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: September 26, 2003 6:44 AM
To: (Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum); Bev Christian
Subject: RE: [LF] Standard Test Method For Determining % Pb in PCAs


I will ask my local pain shop but do you have any more details?

Bob Willis
2 Fourth Ave, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 4HA
Tel: 01245 351502
Fax: 01245 496123
Mobile: 07860 775858
Email: [log in to unmask]
Web: www.leadfreesoldering.com
Web: www.bobwillis.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bev Christian
Sent: 26 September 2003 11:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Standard Test Method For Determining % Pb in PCAs


Luc, Bob,
You have both added interesting things to the mix.
1) Most people who even have XRF systems (even new ones) are going to have
instruments that are good for 2% and if they are lucky 1%.  They are not
going to be able to detect 0.1%.  It seems that most solder manufacturers
favor 0.2%, as there is some sort of quantum difference in separation costs
going lower.  This has not been explained to me in detail.
2) Bob, have you tried the little test kit you can get at any paint store to
determine if you have lead containing paint on your walls?  If so, how
sensitive is it?

regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion

-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: September 26, 2003 6:25 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Standard Test Method For Determining % Pb in PCAs


     Hello,

     There are up-to date X-ray fluorescence system (using thin tube
     collimators) which allow to detected polluted coatings have Pb inside.

     Surely this method is checking only a spot on the coating (50µm to
     300µm).

     We have been able to control Tin coated with Pb pollution as well as
     polluted solder bumps.

     If you come to the problem of the 1000ppm above or below , let me
     explain that this level was proposed mainly to avoid tigh controls .

     Proper process maintenance should allow easily to pass that criteria
     considering the Tin anods will be much less than 500ppm Lead.


      best regards

      L.P.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: [LF] Standard Test Method For Determining % Pb in PCAs
Author:  bob ([log in to unmask]) at internet
Date:    09/26/03 10:33 AM


I very interesting discuss so far but at a practical level engineers and
quality staff will just want to have a simple test kit to tell if it has
lead in the component plating, on the PCB or in the joint. If there is they
can then move on to a laboratory test to determine the exact %.

I am currently doing a couple of tests on kits and would be most interested
to hear about this level of testing from other people who are already
looking at this level of assessment.

Bob Willis
2 Fourth Ave, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 4HA
Tel: 01245 351502
Fax: 01245 496123
Mobile: 07860 775858
Email: [log in to unmask]
Web: www.leadfreesoldering.com
Web: www.bobwillis.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kay Nimmo
Sent: 26 September 2003 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Standard Test Method For Determining % Pb in PCAs


Hi Dave

I think there must be several different approaches. Firstly for the
manufacturers of equipment and secondly for the 'enforcers' who will be
implementing the regulations.

As the TI, National, and other links suggest, suppliers will be required to
provide detailed information on the materials used in production of
components and other parts to the final equipment producer. Some assembly
companies have already set up audit procedures, visiting their suppliers
manufacturing plants in order to ensure hazardous materials are not being
used, and to specify methods of analysis and certification.Various industry
materials information databases are being set up to assist with this type of
requirement. This is relatively easy to achieve.

The more difficult question surrounds enforcement of the regulation by the
bodies responsible within each EU state; for instance the customs or
environmental agencies. This is complicated by the fact that each state is
free to choose how to implement the requirements as long as the final aim is
achieved. It is also complicated by the fact that the EU decision on the
defintion of a Pb-free, and other listed materials-free, will not be
published until perhaps december. For instance, the limit for Pb may be
defined as 0.1wt% per specific material, or it may be defined as 0.1wt% per
materials that can be mechanically seperated, or maybe something else. Of
course, it is not possible to define a test method until the requirement is
clear (or vice versa).

It may be that one method will be used to give a general indication of the
location of any Pb or other banned substances, and that could then be
followed by another method of analysis to give a more precise figure in the
area of concern. It is possible for the EU to request a standardisation body
to draw up a standard on the method if they think it is required.


You also mentioned this in a previous message (I have been away);
"According to the Japaneese document a Phase 0 is allowed on the equipment
implementation portion of the highway to work out this Leaded and LeadFree
transitioning phase (Roadmap 2002) via JEITA, Soldertec, others
cooperation. What this means for the content of Lead allowed in LF during
this short phase is unknown to me right now. By the way I think some have
already exited this Equipment Phase 0."

I am not sure about phase 0 - I think that would be what is now called phase
1. Basically it covers the use of components in a Pb-free assembly process.
So the components can still contain any amount of Pb but must be rated at a
suitable temperature for Pb-free processing with e.g. SnAgCu solders. You
are right in thinking that this is just an intial stage that many sites have
moved on from. It does not indicate a Pb-free or RoHS compliant product.

The details of the various phases are in the roadmap document page 17-18 ;
http://download.lead-free.org/downloads/EU_roadmap_2003_ver2_lab.pdf

regards
Kay

-----Original Message-----
From: MA/NY DDave [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 25 September 2003 14:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Standard Test Method For Determining % Pb in PCAs


Hi Jos, and IPC LF Listservers,

Yes I figured that out already, by looking at the complexity in
both documents.

In thinking about how to create a physical test, pulverizing followed
by this ICP test, that could get at percent by weight for an average
solder joint or for all the PCB / PW Assembly surface lead (Pb) which
included all the joints I mentally ran into a nightmare. What did I
include as the base weight. Pre pulverizing could I cut furthur on up
leads or bring in other material below to make my Pb percent by weight
lower. What did I do with Flip Chips tight to the surface. Or would I
construct a dummy vehicle that everyone would utilize in their reporting.

At a full packaged component level I understand the value of ICP yet
the insides of components are allowed the higher Pb content to create
a Soldering Heirarchy so I had to exclude that Lead content.

I will be anxious to see if any readers have a one click link to a
test method that the EU and most of it's countries might approve.

My guess is that even trace amounts of Pb in the wrong places will
be enough to trigger a rejection.

Anyway here beyond what Doug has gave us was one National Link
that said the same thing TI-Doug basically wrote above.

<http://www.national.com/packaging/leadfree/european_dir_comp.html>


YiEngr, MA/NY DDave

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET
Leadfree NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Tin Technology Ltd & ITRI Limited
Unit 3, Curo Park
Frogmore
St Albans
Hertfordshire, AL2 2DD

Phone number: +44 (0)870 458 4242
Fax number: +44 (0)870 458 4273
www.tintechnology.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

This information given in this e-mail is for guidance only. It should be
reproduced only in full, with no part taken out of context without prior
permission. We believe the information provided in this statement and any
attachments is reliable and useful, but it is furnished without warranty of
any kind from the authors.
Potential users should make their own determination of the suitability of
any information provided and adopt any safety, health, and other precautions
as may be deemed necessary by the user.
No licence under any patent or other propriety rights is granted or to be
inferred from the provision of the information herein. In no event will Tin
Technology or any of its affiliates be liable for any damages whatsoever
resulting from the use of or reliance upon this information.

The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the individual
or entity to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged and
confidential information and if you are not an intended recipient you must
not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it.
If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by
telephone on +44 (0)870 458 4242. Please also destroy and delete the message
from your computer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET
Leadfree NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---L
eadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET
Leadfree N
OMAIL
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for a
dditional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-97
00 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET
Leadfree NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET
Leadfree NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET
Leadfree NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATOM RSS1 RSS2