Bev,
We get by for several reason; one we have to there isn't much of a
choice, work long hour when we need to, and focus our efforts. We only
have SEM/EDX, XRF, Sonoscan, transmission x-ray, cross sectioning, and
optical microscopy. Anything else we farm out. I'm fortunate that
while at Lucent Technologies I worked with three individuals who did
world case cross sectioning. Two of those people are still at Lucent
and the person who trained those two is with me at Andrew. The reason
we can get along so lean is that we don't do in-coming inspect or
material certification or routine analytical evaluations. We analyze
failure, some field failures but mostly (90%) intentional failures
caused during reliability testing of new products and designs. Actually
the work is great. We do a lot of quality characterization and provide
answers for problems that crop up and questions raised by component
engineering and design organizations.
As an example, we don't own a wetting balance. We test solderability by
soldering (Dip-&-Look or simulated surface mount soldering). The reason
we don't have a solderability tester is because when someone comes to us
with a part that doesn't solder he already knows the part doesn't solder
and the last thing he wants to hear from us is that the part isn't
solderable because it doesn't pass J/STD-001 or 002 because he already
knows that. What he wants is a reason why the part isn't solderable and
what he should do about it. That is where our XRF, x-Sec and SEM/EDX
play an important roll. In 99% of the cases we do a solderability
assessment by determining what the surface finish is, why it would cause
problems, and what can be corrected.
You may have a hard time justifying changing the position to a full time
job but I'd work real hard at trying to maintain the intern position. I
find it invaluable to have "new blood" in the lab even if their skill
set is limited. They usually bring a new way of looking at things and
the on the job training you and your staff need to do keeps your skill
set functioning.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger Andrew Corporation
40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
(908) 546-4531 [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Bev Christian [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 2:57 PM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Wenger, George M.
Subject: RE: [TN] Technical Question about Materials Labs
George,
Now we are getting somewhere. I like your comments about "never enough"
and "too much".
The reason I ask is that I run a captive lab with 5 people - manager,
chemist, materials scientist, seasoned tech and an intern in a company
of 2000. The latter is leaving unexpectedly and I am trying to justify
turning the position into a full time one. We have SIR, EM,
x-sectioning, viscometers, DSC, TMA, DMA, TGA, strain gages, solder
pots, tensile testers, FTIR, XRF, IC, SERA, SEC, ICP, Thermoire and
SEM/EDX. Sounds like I am spoiled in the present environment, but how
in the world do you keep everything in tip top shape with only two
people?!!!!
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Wenger, George M. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: June 6, 2003 2:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Technical Question about Materials Labs
Bev,
There is no rule of thumb and when you talk about appropriate level of
staffing there are two views. When your involved in the work the
appropriate level is never enough. When your involved in funding the
work the appropriate level is always too much. I'll give you the
numbers that I've seen over the years. Most of the analysis labs at
manufacturing locations I've interacted with in Western Electric many
years ago were typically staffed with about 6 people for plants that had
8000 to 15000 employees. Several years later the analysis labs at
manufacturing locations I've interacted with in Lucent Technologies were
typically staffed with 2 people for plants that had 3000 to 5000
employees. Our FMA Lab in Bell laboratories was staffed with 4 people
before the telecommunications industry when through their downturn and
at the low point the Lucent FMA Lab was staffed with 2 people.
When I went to work for the Lucent spin off called Celiant the Lab had 2
people to support 250 employees. Now that Andrew purchased Celiant the
Lab has 2 people to support 4500 employees.
When I've visited CMs I seen any where from 6 to 10 lab people
What I've seen so far is a single company usually has 2 people and one
that works with numerous customers typically have 6
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531
Reliability Engineer
RF Power Amplifier Group
Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Bev Christian [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Technical Question about Materials Labs
Technetters,
This question is directed mainly at the "lab rats" out there.
Are there any rules of thumb that are used to determine the appropriate
level of staffing a lab to support an electronics manufacturing
process/plant/company? Based on what - square footage of lab, plant,
number of people in company? Obviously it is also related to the
complexity of the product(s) and $$ in the pocket of the company. Just
curious. Any of you independent labs willing to wade in on this one?
Susan? Terry?
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
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