Great thread.

ISO isn't looking for the same things.  The misconception is that ISO
guarantees quality.  It doesn't, and any third party auditor, paid
consultant, or QA manager should be willing to tell you that.  It
establishes a framework from which quality process can be demonstrated as
effective.  Speed limits and traffic signs don't guarantee safe drivers, and
we all know that. ISO systems need to be evaluated not so much as a vehicle
for quality, but by the results that are created from it.  Most employees
and managers see ISO as a necessary evil, and no one wants it, or
acknowleges it until it serves their own interests.  But it is important
that one does exist, becuase what it can do is expect documentation and
control evidence to be kept and maintained.  That evidence is what you need
to see.  The system will simply tell you how they collect it and where to
find it. What they choose to look at and how often speaks volumes about
their attitude toward quality, and then how they responded to what they
learned.

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "paul reid" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 08:30
Subject: Re: [TN] Board Shop Audit


> I do not believe that ISO certification proves a company has a good
quality
> system. It does prove that the company follows their procedures, as
> prescribed by ISO, but not that the system is setup correctly. I
personally
> know of a shop that has a corrupted quality system but passes ISO audits.
> They just wrote their system in a manor that any quality manager would
> reject. They pass ISO but fail to produce what one would expect a QC/QA
> system to achieve. I hear that the ISO auditors roll their eyes and pass
> them because they cannot be faulted for failing to follow the tenants
> prescribed by ISO. It is quite disturbing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: d. terstegge [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 7:59 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Board Shop Audit
>
>
> About the general  (non-technical) quality audit: would it not be
> sufficient to rely on ISO certificates ?  Would the average quality
> engineer or purchaser do a better job than a specialized ISO9002 auditor
> ? And isn't a part of the advantage of the ISO-qualification system that
> there's no need for further quality audits ?
> Or am I too optimistic about all this ?
>
> Daan Terstegge
> Thales Communications
> Unclassified mail
> Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 04/02/03 06:39pm >>>
> There is a difference between a technical audit and a quality audit.
> In
> a technical audit, the auditor has to determine if the candidate
> supplier can perform to the customer's technical requirements, e.g.,
> assess their capabilities. In a quality audit, the auditor looks to
> whether the candidate supplier produces to an acceptable quality
> level,
> has process control, documentation control, calibration control, etc.
> Frequently these audits are combined, or performed in parallel by
> different customer representatives. One must also look to see if the
> candidate supplier has a stable business, has capacity to take on the
> customer's work, etc. Supplier selection is a complicated issue and my
> perception is that a lot of organizations don't give it the attention
> it
> deserves.
>
> Blair Hogg
> QA Manager
> GAI-Tronics Corporation
>
>
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