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January 2003

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From:
"McGlaughlin, Jeffrey A" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum.
Date:
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:00:11 -0500
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Mark -

As hard as this is in this economy I strongly recommend that you tell the
customer to either take responsibility for their design or to take it
elsewhere.  There are too many factors involved in the selection of laminate
that you as a fabricator can not control for you to accept responsibility
for the function of the boards.

As a designer, I have worked hard to develop an understanding of how to
select laminate to function in the system I am designing. I may ask a
fabricator to *HELP* with selecting a laminate that meets my design criteria
and fits with their process; but I would never *DEMAND* that they take
responsibility for *MY* design. 

There are several very good presentations at the UP Media Design Conferences
and/or supported by the IPC that cover everything from basic laminate
structure to advanced laminates for high-speed design. You should recommend
that the customer look in to some of these courses before going forward with
this design.

Best of Luck,

Jeffrey A McGlaughlin C.I.D.
Senior Designer
Battelle Memorial Institute
Columbus Ohio
[log in to unmask]
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Mazzoli [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 4:35 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Laminate requirements - Who is responsible for choosing?

I have a question for designers, OEM's and Fab houses regarding material
choices.  A customer of ours who builds high-end burn in boards has demanded
that we choose and stand behind the laminate used for their boards.  They've
experienced field failures (possibly from CAF or perhaps sulfur in the
Polyimide system, though neither has been confirmed) and then began
specifying other material types that proved even more troublesome.  Instead
of looking at obvious design characteristics that may be leading to these
failures (like hole to  internal trace distance) they've elected to make us,
the fabricator, responsible for choosing the materials and ultimately being
responsible for their long-term effectiveness in the field.  As well,
they're not willing to pay for any increases a new material may cost.
I've been in this business for 23 years and have assisted many customers in
choosing materials.  Assisted is the key word here. No customer up to this
point has demanded that I make the laminate choice for them and eat whatever
costs are associated with it as well as stand behind the product should it
fail in the field (other than for workmanship reasons for which we had
control).  Most PCB users want control of the materials they choose.  They
order their boards on whatever materials they feel will best suit their
needs.  They're the experts at whatever products they build, not us.
I know this business is getting tougher by the moment, but seriously, are
other end users approaching PCB fab houses with a similar scenario?  I have
big concerns about making the final choice of laminates.  Not only do we not
know the exact operating conditions of his product but we have no control
over the design.  So even if we see design areas where field failures can
occur, we can't make changes.
Where does this end?  Are fab houses now supposed to become expert in all
electronic technologies we build PCB's for?  Is it smart for the end user to
allow a fab house to choose the material?   

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