I agree with what you said, and I was not trying to defend the actions of suicide bombers and terrorists, but we cannot view all Muslims as being that way. These violent acts are committed by radicals that view Islam in a different way than many who live among us. The only point I was trying to make is to not judge all Muslims by the acts of the different terrorist groups.
My apologies to those who thought I was defending the acts of terrorism.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Szpruch [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:53 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC...Iraq.... Really OT
Chris,
People in my country are suffering of Islam suicide terror almost on daily
base.
Technet is not a place for political discussions, but I really have to
emphasise, that the basic background of suicide bombers is their Islam
origin. For Muslems those murders are "Saint" ( Shahid ) fighting the "Holy
War" ( Jihad) against Jews ( not against Israelis ). They definitly are not
fighting "warrior to warrior" but they are killing children, women , etc.
How many US warriors were killed in WTC in NY , 11/09/2000 by those gentle
Islam warriors ?
Edward
Edward Szpruch
Eltek Ltd
P.O.Box 159 ; 49101 Petah Tikva Israel
Tel ++972 3 9395050 , Fax ++972 3 9309581
e-mail [log in to unmask]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Almeras [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: ד נובמבר 13 2002 15:35
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] NTC...Iraq.... Really OT
>
> I hate to jump in on a political or religious topic, but I wanted to point
> out that Islam teaches to carry out the war against other religions
> warrior to warrior, not by killing women and children. Those books you
> mentioned may provide very good insight into the underlying issues, but
> authors can place their own spin on a topic just as much as the media can.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> Chris Almeras
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:59 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] NTC...Iraq.... Really OT
>
>
> Brian and Steve,
>
> With all due respect, this is hardly the place for this type of
> discussion,
> since it is way way off topic, but since you have brought up the subject,
> one foundational error in both of your understandings needs to be pointed
> out and corrected.
>
> The one thing that the secular world as a whole, and the secular press in
> particular, simply refuses to comprehend and understand, is that the
> fundamental problem in the Middle East in general, and Iraq in particular,
> and indeed, in the world today, is a question of religion, and in
> particular, the religion of Islam.
>
> You, and anyone else that tries, will never even begin to understand the
> problems until you examine the true teachings of Islam, as found in the
> Quran and the Hadith.
>
> For example, contrary to what you will find at the web sites that you
> referenced, the real problem between Iran and Iraq can be traced to the
> differences between the Islamic Sunni and Shite factions and also between
> the Fundamentalest who want to take the whole world back into the 7th
> century under Islamic Law (Sharia), and those who want to live in the
> twentieth century (or make that the twenty first). Add to this, the fact
> that Saddam has proclaimed himself to be the modern day Nebuchadnezzar who
> is the saviour of the entire Middle Eastern Peoples, and you can begin to
> understand the complexities of the problem.
>
> A couple of very simple and well proven facts of history are all that is
> really needed to put Saddam into a proper perspective, the first being the
> invasion and distruction of the Country of Kuwait, and the second being
> the
> massive whosale slaughter and genocide of the Kurds. Add to this his
> proven
> connections to Al-Quadia training camps inside Iraq, and the ties between
> the Iraqui Secret Service and the Oklahoma City Bombing, and what more do
> you need.
>
> George W. Bush was totally out to lunch when he declared Islam to be a
> religion of Peace, and with Christian leaders around the world speaking
> out
> and setting the record straight, such as Franklin Grahm, the son of
> evangelest Billy Grahm, and a host of others, people are beginning to see
> the true face of Islam.
>
> Open your eyes, and look at the wholesale slaughter, yes genocide, of
> Christians by Muslims today, yes today, in the Sudan, Indonesia, and the
> Phillipenes. It is rarely reported by the secular US press, but go do a
> search of a site like BBC World News and see what is really going on in
> the
> world around you.
>
> Islam, and all of its various factions, teach that anyone who is not a
> Muslim, is a second class person (actually much worse than that), that has
> absolutely no rights or standing whatsoever, and that Jihad and Terrorism
> are the sole legitimate avenue to converting the entire world, yes, the
> entire world, to Islam. That is after they kill all of the Jews and
> Christians (which teaching, oddly enough, comes directly from the Quran).
>
> Radical? Yes!
>
> True? Also yes!
>
> Anyone who really wants to understand the problem should look a t a few
> books that will give you some real insight into the problem, without the
> "spin" that you get from the secular press on the 11:00 News or Time
> Magazine or Frontline or things like the "Islam, Empire of Faith" series
> on
> PBS.
>
> Some of these books are fairly controversial, but then the truth usually
> is.
>
> 1. Jihad and Terrorism, by Dr. Mark Gabriel (assumed name), who has a
> Doctorate in Islamic History and was a Professor of Islamic History at
> Al-Azar in Cario for over 15 years, which is the premiere university in
> the
> Muslim World. This is an expose on the Islamic Doctrine of Jihad as taught
> in the Quran and the Hadith by a former Muslim.
>
> 2. Islamic Invasion, by Dr. Robert Morey, who has a Doctorate in Islamic
> Studies. This book is hard hitting and fact based. A good place to begin
> to
> get a realistic grasp of the problem. Irrespective of what you may end up
> thinking of the book, you will really begin to have a grasp of the problem
> when you finish reading it.
>
> 3. Winning the War Against Radical Islam, also by Dr. Morey. This book was
> circulated inside the Pentegon a few months back and is responsible for
> the
> Pentegon statements underlying Saudi Arabias recent complaints about a
> month
> and a half ago regarding the Pentegon wanting to attack religious shrines
> in
> their country.
>
> 4. American Jihad, by Steve Emerson (I hope I got that correct).
>
> Any of these will get you started on really understanding what is really
> going on in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East, and the "War on
> Terrorism".
>
> Brian, it will take a lot more than praying for peace, and if you read any
> one of the first three books above, you will understand why.
>
> My apologies to anyone in the forum who may have been offended by my post,
> but sometimes you just have to speak up and set the record straight.
>
> JaMi
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Ellis" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [TN] NTC...Iraq.
>
>
> > Steve
> >
> > I'm not getting into a political argument, but following your links to
> > the CNN site to see what they really have. I see "Iraq is believed...",
> > "It is cosidered that Iraq may...", "The site was destroyed by UNSCOM in
> > 1996..." and other such vague phrases.
> >
> > As far as I'm aware, there is no proof that any WMDs exist has been
> > presented to the public, only speculation. The Blair document was sheer
> > waffle without an ounce of proof. If this were presented in a court of
> > law as evidence, the judge would split his sides laughing.
> >
> > I sincerely hope that Saddam lets in the inspectors and they find egg on
> > the face of the pro-war factions, rather than serious weapons, other
> > than their prehistoric Scuds which are more likely to explode on their
> > launch pads than on a target.
> >
> > As for the Iraqi parliamentary decision, I believe that nothing can be
> > taken at its face value. It is probably simple political manoeuvering a)
> > to cover their backsides and b) to jockey for position. I think I'm not
> > alone in this: the stock markets didn't react, for example, and they
> > have plenty of political analysts.
> >
> > The best thing you or I can do is to pray for peace.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > Steve Gregory wrote:
> > > Hi all ya'll...
> > >
> > > Looks like things are starting to come to a head with Iraq. Not trying
> > > to be political at all, but I've searched and tried to understand what
> > > all this is about. Found a link that traces back to why this is
> happening...
> > >
> > > Granted, this is something from the 'Net, and it could be anything the
> > > authors want it to be, but there are reputable sources for this
> > > information...
> > >
> > > This link initially details out carrier battle groups that are
> deployed
> > > at this time, some serious stuff!!!
> > >
> > >
> http://www.efreedomnews.com/News%20Archive/Iraq/SpecialReportWaronIraq/W26
> US
> SConstellation.htm
> > >
> > > But when you get to the page, there will be a link titled at the top
> of
> > > the page;
> > >
> > > SPECIAL REPORT War on Iraq: Background
> > >
> > > The actual link is:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.efreedomnews.com/News%20Archive/Iraq/SpecialReportWaronIraq/SR1
> .h
> tm
> > >
> > > Which will take you to a series of articles about why we're where we
> are
> > > at...
> > >
> > > This is some serious stuff in my opinion, and I hope and pray that
> we'll
> > > all get through it...
> > >
> > > We need to think and live as one...maybe someday....soon.
> > >
> > > -Steve Gregory-
> > >
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