Brian and Steve,

With all due respect, this is hardly the place for this type of discussion,
since it is way way off topic, but since you have brought up the subject,
one foundational error in both of your understandings needs to be pointed
out and corrected.

The one thing that the secular world as a whole, and the secular press in
particular, simply refuses to comprehend and understand, is that the
fundamental problem in the Middle East in general, and Iraq in particular,
and indeed, in the world today, is a question of religion, and in
particular, the religion of Islam.

You, and anyone else that tries, will never even begin to understand the
problems until you examine the true teachings of Islam, as found in the
Quran and the Hadith.

For example, contrary to what you will find at the web sites that you
referenced, the real problem between Iran and Iraq can be traced to the
differences between the Islamic Sunni and Shite factions and also between
the Fundamentalest who want to take the whole world back into the 7th
century under Islamic Law (Sharia), and those who want to live in the
twentieth century (or make that the twenty first). Add to this, the fact
that Saddam has proclaimed himself to be the modern day Nebuchadnezzar who
is the saviour of the entire Middle Eastern Peoples, and you can begin to
understand the complexities of the problem.

A couple of very simple and well proven facts of history are all that is
really needed to put Saddam into a proper perspective, the first being the
invasion and distruction of the Country of Kuwait, and the second being the
massive whosale slaughter and genocide of the Kurds. Add to this his proven
connections to Al-Quadia training camps inside Iraq, and the ties between
the Iraqui Secret Service and the Oklahoma City Bombing, and what more do
you need.

George W. Bush was totally out to lunch when he declared Islam to be a
religion of Peace, and with Christian leaders around the world speaking out
and setting the record straight, such as Franklin Grahm, the son of
evangelest Billy Grahm, and a host of others, people are beginning to see
the true face of Islam.

Open your eyes, and look at the wholesale slaughter, yes genocide, of
Christians by Muslims today, yes today, in the Sudan, Indonesia, and the
Phillipenes. It is rarely reported by the secular US press, but go do a
search of a site like BBC World News and see what is really going on in the
world around you.

Islam, and all of its various factions, teach that anyone who is not a
Muslim, is a second class person (actually much worse than that), that has
absolutely no rights or standing whatsoever, and that Jihad and Terrorism
are the sole legitimate avenue to converting the entire world, yes, the
entire world, to Islam. That is after they kill all of the Jews and
Christians (which teaching, oddly enough, comes directly from the Quran).

Radical? Yes!

True? Also yes!

Anyone who really wants to understand the problem should look a t a few
books that will give you some real insight into the problem, without the
"spin" that you get from the secular press on the 11:00 News or Time
Magazine or Frontline or things like the "Islam, Empire of Faith" series on
PBS.

Some of these books are fairly controversial, but then the truth usually is.

1. Jihad and Terrorism, by Dr. Mark Gabriel (assumed name), who has a
Doctorate in Islamic History and was a Professor of Islamic History at
Al-Azar in Cario for over 15 years, which is the premiere university in the
Muslim World. This is an expose on the Islamic Doctrine of Jihad as taught
in the Quran and the Hadith by a former Muslim.

2. Islamic Invasion, by Dr. Robert Morey, who has a Doctorate in Islamic
Studies. This book is hard hitting and fact based. A good place to begin to
get a realistic grasp of the problem. Irrespective of what you may end up
thinking of the book, you will really begin to have a grasp of the problem
when you finish reading it.

3. Winning the War Against Radical Islam, also by Dr. Morey. This book was
circulated inside the Pentegon a few months back and is responsible for the
Pentegon statements underlying Saudi Arabias recent complaints about a month
and a half ago regarding the Pentegon wanting to attack religious shrines in
their country.

4. American Jihad, by Steve Emerson (I hope I got that correct).

Any of these will get you started on really understanding what is really
going on in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East, and the "War on
Terrorism".

Brian, it will take a lot more than praying for peace, and if you read any
one of the first three books above, you will understand why.

My apologies to anyone in the forum who may have been offended by my post,
but sometimes you just have to speak up and set the record straight.

JaMi


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Ellis" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC...Iraq.


> Steve
>
> I'm not getting into a political argument, but following your links to
> the CNN site to see what they really have. I see "Iraq is believed...",
> "It is cosidered that Iraq may...", "The site was destroyed by UNSCOM in
> 1996..." and other such vague phrases.
>
> As far as I'm aware, there is no proof that any WMDs exist has been
> presented to the public, only speculation. The Blair document was sheer
> waffle without an ounce of proof. If this were presented in a court of
> law as evidence, the judge would split his sides laughing.
>
> I sincerely hope that Saddam lets in the inspectors and they find egg on
> the face of the pro-war factions, rather than serious weapons, other
> than their prehistoric Scuds which are more likely to explode on their
> launch pads than on a target.
>
> As for the Iraqi parliamentary decision, I believe that nothing can be
> taken at its face value. It is probably simple political manoeuvering a)
> to cover their backsides and b) to jockey for position. I think I'm not
> alone in this: the stock markets didn't react, for example, and they
> have plenty of political analysts.
>
> The best thing you or I can do is to pray for peace.
>
> Brian
>
> Steve Gregory wrote:
> > Hi all ya'll...
> >
> > Looks like things are starting to come to a head with Iraq. Not trying
> > to be political at all, but I've searched and tried to understand what
> > all this is about. Found a link that traces back to why this is
happening...
> >
> > Granted, this is something from the 'Net, and it could be anything the
> > authors want it to be, but there are reputable sources for this
> > information...
> >
> > This link initially details out carrier battle groups that are deployed
> > at this time, some serious stuff!!!
> >
> >
http://www.efreedomnews.com/News%20Archive/Iraq/SpecialReportWaronIraq/W26US
SConstellation.htm
> >
> > But when you get to the page, there will be a link titled at the top of
> > the page;
> >
> > SPECIAL REPORT War on Iraq: Background
> >
> > The actual link is:
> >
> >
http://www.efreedomnews.com/News%20Archive/Iraq/SpecialReportWaronIraq/SR1.h
tm
> >
> > Which will take you to a series of articles about why we're where we are
> > at...
> >
> > This is some serious stuff in my opinion, and I hope and pray that we'll
> > all get through it...
> >
> > We need to think and live as one...maybe someday....soon.
> >
> > -Steve Gregory-
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List
> > provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe,
> > send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT
> > the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start)
> > delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> > or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail
> > to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous
> > posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site
> > http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact
> > Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> > -----------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> -----------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
-----------------------------------------------------