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October 2002

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Subject:
From:
"Tostevin, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum.
Date:
Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:12:37 -0500
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You just gotta' tip your hat to someone who has enough curiosity to "cross
-section his old house plumbing to find evidence of dezincification of the
solder joints."

Bruce Tostevin
Benchmark Electronics
Hudson, NH



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Hillman [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:46 AM
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      Re: [TN] soldering brass to copper
>
> Hi! As far as I know the plumbing industry just ignores the issue! I have
> seen some documented cases of plumbing failures due to dezincification but
> my guess is that the solder joint sizes, amount of solder, tolerances,
> etc.
> are such that failures are minimal. Also, quite a bit of plumbing is done
> with copper and not brass piping. During a remodeling effort some time
> back
> I saved a segment of the removed plumbing for cross-sectioning - and I did
> find some evidence of dezincification in the solder joint but it had not
> progressed to a point of failure (and the pipes were pretty old, I don't
> think it would have ever reached the failure point).
>
> Dave Hillman
> Rockwell Collins
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> rgrant <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 10/04/2002 09:39:50 AM
>
> Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please
> respond
>        to rgrant <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent by:    TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To:    [log in to unmask]
> cc:
>
> Subject:    Re: [TN] soldering brass to copper
>
>
> So what is done in the plumbing industry?  All the valves in my house that
> I
> soldered to my copper pipes are a brass based alloy (which soldered quite
> nicely).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Hillman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 7:51 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] soldering brass to copper
>
>
> Hi TechNet! Sorry Guy but Mike Fenner already beat me to the answer (I
> just
> haven't been drinking enough Diet Coke lately). There are two good
> references which provide additional explanation on dezincification:
> Structure and Properties of Engineering Alloys, page 241,  ISBN
> 0-07-058560-1 (this is a really good general reference on metals as a
> subject), and Soldering Handbook, 3rd Edition, ISBN 0-87171-618-6, page
> 347. Most folks avoid having dezincification problems by using an
> underplate of copper to "seal off" the brass surface from the solder.
>
> Dave Hillman
> Rockwell Collins
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
> Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 10/04/2002 08:02:09 AM
>
> Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please
> respond
>        to Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent by:    TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To:    [log in to unmask]
> cc:
>
> Subject:    Re: [TN] soldering brass to copper
>
>
> IPC-HDBK-001 5.1.2
> Brass is an alloy consisting mainly of copper and zinc. Without a
> barrier layer of copper or nickel over the brass, the zinc will dissolve
> into the molten solder during soldering, Zinc contamination of the
> solder joint is evident by a rough, grainy, frosty, porous surface with
> a high dendritic structure. Also, solder wetting to the terminal would
> be inhibited.
>
> Wish I knew more, perhaps Dhillman would find time to comment?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Nutting
> > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:23 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] soldering brass to copper
> >
> >
> > I vaguely remember something about soldering brass in some
> > recent posts.  We are looking at some cooling parts that may
> > require soldering brass to copper.  My experience says that
> > this is a non-problem.  The posts that I remember said
> > something about tin and crystallization.  Am I mixing two
> > different thoughts here?
> >
> > Phil Nutting
> > Manufacturing Engineer
> > Kaiser Systems, Inc.
> > voice: 978-922-9300
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
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