Kathie
Thanks for this confirmation: even in the USA it IS a saponifier !
I would say their lab researchers have never had a splash in the eye if
they think that pH 11 = MILD irritant. It could render the cornea
opaque. :-(
If you e-mail it to me, I'll put it on a web site so that anyone could
download it. If it's hard copy, you can scan it with Acrobat into a PDF
format.
Best regards,
Brian
"Lambert, Katherine A." wrote:
>
> I dug through my files & found a real MSDS for Zestron's Vigon A200.
>
> It is a "water-based blend of alkoxypropanols and amine-compounds."
>
> Under Hazardous ingredients, only 1 item is listed:
> 1-Amino-2-methyl-propanol at 1 to 5% (I presume this is by weight). There
> is no OSHA PEL for this compound.
>
> Its pH is listed as 10.4 to 11.4 at 10 g/l
>
> For eye and skin contact, they list it as a mild irritant.
>
> If anyone would like a real copy, I could figure out how to email it.
>
> Kathie Lambert
> SMT Process Engineer
> Northrop Grumman
> Baltimore, MD
> 410-765-9746
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b_ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 4:22 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning Solvent for Military Product
>
> It would seem that there is either mis- or dis-information on the go.
> Firstly, I reproach Zestron for an uninformative website. Most companies
> put technical details and MSDS on their site.
>
> OK, here goes: if Vigon were just an alcohol and water, why does the
> solution have a pH exceeding 11? There is no way this could happen. I
> have not seen a US MSDS but if it does not mention that it contains an
> amine, then either the European product is different from the US one
> (this is unlikely with an identical designation) or it is sadly lacking
> in important information. Just dip a pH indicator paper into the
> solution and then believe me!
>
> All saponifiers contain an alkaline product, most frequently an organic
> amine. This is no exception, but I forget which one is used in Vigon. It
> may be a derivative of one of the propylene amines. It may be that the
> MSDS uses a synonym that disguises tha amine group with something
> containing nitrogen (analogue to ammonia = nitrogen trihydride): that I
> cannot say. In any case, the odour of the hot solution gives the amine
> away to anyone who has experience of using them. Commercial defluxing
> saponifiers also contain solvents, because not all the flux residues are
> saponifiable and solvents are a requirement to ensure maximal cleaning.
> They are usually either heavy alcohols or diglycol ethers or a
> combination of both. Therefore it is normal that the MSDS should mention
> them.
>
> Still don't believe me? OK. Look up the Handbook of Solvents, edited by
> George Wypych, Chemtec Publishing (2001), p. 899, Section 14.8.2.1.4,
> entitled Water-based cleaning agents based on MPC technology. This
> section contains the following sentence: "Alkaline pH, that is essential
> for the saponification process, can be realized through biochemical
> buffer systems, predominately aminoalkanoles." And that was not written
> by Brian Ellis but by Martin Hanek of Dr O.K. Wack Chemie and Andreas
> Mühlbauer of the Zestron Corporation. Straight from the horse's mouth,
> n'est ce pas? Or, rather, nicht war? Incidentally, the terminology in
> this sentence is questionable: there is nothing bio- about the
> buffering.
>
> Worker safety: it is essential that operators wear full chemical
> protection when handling either the concentrate or the working solution.
> An untreated splash of the concentrate, or even the solution, in the
> eyes could lead to rapid blindness. At the best, even if treated
> immediately, it would be screamingly painful. It should never be used or
> stored without a functional eyewash basin in the immediate vicinity. The
> skin is also sensitive and splashes should be washed immediately in
> copious rinses (if I clean one circuit by unprotected hand in the
> solution with a brush, the skin desquamates from that brief exposure -
> voice of experience). Vapours: all amines are toxic to inhale. I don't
> know the OEL for this particular one, but MEA, the most popular amine,
> is usually in the 3 - 10 ppm range, in most countries. If you can smell
> it, the concentration is probably already too high. For example, in the
> US, the PEL for MEA is 3 ppm and the odour threshold is 2.6 ppm.
> Although I don't have figures, there is no reason to believe that other
> amines are that much more benign. Also, if ingested, it would not
> improve the health of the operator. Large quantities of lemon juice (or
> Coca Cola), followed by a suspension of active carbon in water, would be
> the best treatement if the patient is conscious. Do NOT provoke
> vomiting. Call a doctor immediately. If the patient is unconscious, keep
> airways free, monitor his state and if necessary administer oxygen or
> mouth-to-mouth respiration. Likely doses would not cause cardiac
> depression in normal patients but, if strictly necessary, CPR could be
> administered until medical help arrives.
>
> Environment:
> 1) Heavy metals: By definition, the fluxes will remove heavy metal
> oxides from the solder and components to form heavy metal salts. These
> will be removed in the Vigon solution. This solution, and the filter
> cartridges, are therefore hazardous waste and must never be disposed of
> by normal channels without prior recovery of the heavy metals. As the
> solution is used for long periods, because of their unique process, the
> metal concentration may rise to such levels that the solution dragged
> out may contain enough to contaminate the first wash water, depending on
> the cleaning machine design. It is therefore essential to check that
> this water, too, is acceptable for disposal according to the local
> regulations
> 2) pH: Most water companies accept waste water with a pH between 6 and
> 8.5 or 9 (check your local regulations). You are required to ensure that
> anything you send to waste is within tolerance. The solution most
> certainly isn't. If your waste water is consistently alkaline, some
> types of sewage pipes could be damaged, causing leaks that would be
> health hazard for the local population.
> 3) Biodegradability: everything organic is biodegradable, given enough
> time and the right conditions. Ideally, we want biodegradation to be as
> rapid as possible. Given enough oxygen, there is no reason to believe
> that Vigon A-200 would not aerobically degrade rapidly, which is good.
> However, is there enough oxygen? Many treatment plants for either
> industrial or publicly owned run at the limit of their oxygenation
> capabilities. If it is insufficient, suddenly adding large quantities of
> Vigon solution with a relatively high concentration of organic matter
> with C-3 or higher molecules may overload the capabilities of the plant.
> Check with your effluent/hazardous waste disopsal chain.
> 4) VOC: Vigon is a volatile organic compound: check with your local
> authorities whether you require a scrubber in your ventilation system
> before discharge to the air.
>
> I'm sorry to be a prophet of doom but, from the info given in posts
> here, it would seem that some users may have been ill-informed. I'm
> therefore putting the church back where it belongs, in the middle of the
> village.
>
> I put into service the first Vigon A-200 system in Switzerland. I was
> very impressed by its performance, better than other saponifiers I
> tried. It's damn good, in fact. However, I was unimpressed by the fact
> that the importer had not complied with Swiss labelling requirements nor
> given my client any H&S advice. However, at the time, it was a new
> product and I assumed that the appropriate compliance would follow. With
> this experience, I do know what I'm talking about, so please give me a
> little credit and, if you use the product, make sure you use it well and
> safely. You can only be satisfied if you wish to go the saponification
> route.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brian
>
> PS PLEASE spell my name correctly: flattery will get you nowhere :-)
>
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