If only ...
Edward Szpruch wrote:
>
> Bev,
> Don`t be so pessimistic : according to the minutes from Johannesburg Summit,
> the hunting season on politicians is declared as open :))
> Edward
>
> Edward Szpruch
> Eltek Ltd
> P.O.Box 159 ; 49101 Petah Tikva Israel
> Tel ++972 3 9395050 , Fax ++972 3 9309581
> e-mail [log in to unmask]
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bev Christian [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: в аевеси 27 2002 14:26
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [LF] Shooting range + "New" old topic
> >
> > :) OK guys, enough with the hunting stuff. What about a clear challenge
> > to
> > the way the proposed lead leaching study is set up? This is a small
> > enough
> > boat it might be turned. Still no response from the IPC either.
> > Bev
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: August 26, 2002 5:24 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
> > Cc: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [LF] Shooting range + "New" old topic
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Bev! Just an FYI but the US and Canada eliminated the use of Pb shot
> > for
> > waterfowl hunting about 5 years ago due to the accidental Pb poisoning of
> > waterfowl (a feeding habits - migration pathway interaction). Although the
> > initial use of steel shot was not a pretty issue (lots of folks
> > "relearned"
> > they ballistics!) the current state of the industry is back to normal. A
> > fair amount of very interesting metallurgy - the current "best" PbFree
> > shot
> > is a tungsten alloy. I posted some information on the subject a year ago -
> > you might check the achieves. The lastest Fish and Wildlife data survey of
> > waterfowl shows that the incidence of waterfowl Pb poisoning has been
> > almost eliminated (a case of good science and material engineering to
> > benefit the environment). If you have a real interest Doug Pauls and
> > myself
> > will be demonstrating the tungsten alloy ballistics in about 3 weeks when
> > the FY02-03 season opens here in Iowa (we have found that the consumption
> > of Mt. Dew and Diet Coke do not improve ballistics!).
> >
> > Dave Hillman "a practicing duck hunter"
> > Rockwell Collins
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 08/26/2002 03:30:47 PM
> >
> > Please respond to "(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)"
> > <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Bev Christian
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > Sent by: Leadfree <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > cc:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [LF] Shooting range + "New" old topic
> >
> >
> >
> > Greg,
> > I don't hunt either, but I don't "hunt" those that do either. Your last
> > sentence was the best: a sane solution was found.
> >
> > But what about the second part of my e-mail?
> > Bev
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Munie, Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: August 26, 2002 4:18 PM
> > To: '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)'; 'Bev Christian'
> > Subject: RE: [LF] Shooting range + "New" old topic
> >
> >
> > Bev
> >
> > Re the shooting range here in town: There was also concern that the
> > wildfowl who frequent the area would be affected by the lead. I myself see
> > that this is a possibility. Lead should leach much better in duck
> > digestive
> > juice than in our limestone soil! (As it was any impact on the birds from
> > ingestion from that specific source is impossible to prove one way or the
> > other.)
> >
> > It's good to know that w/ time there is less and less of a threat.
> >
> > I would consider it much more of a threat to the widlife if that beautiful
> > 20+ acres was converted to just another parking lot or soccer field in the
> > name of saving the environment.
> >
> > FYI: I don't own a firearm and I don't hunt. But I don't see that as a
> > reason to shut down the range. As it is the range has converted to steel
> > shot.
> >
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bev Christian [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:51 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [LF] Shooting range + "New" old topic
> >
> >
> > I think many of you know how opposed I am to this craziness about
> > lead-free
> > solders, however, I cannot say I take the same stance with regards to
> > commercial, lead free ammunition. Here's why...
> >
> > Ducks Unlimited, the Canadian Wildlife Service and other reputable groups
> > will tell you that lead shot has had a debilitating effect on migratory
> > birds. Many of these bird species eat by pulling stuff up off of the
> > bottom of very shallow marshy areas. Many birds have ingested
> > considerable
> > amounts of lead and as a result and have either died or been put at risk.
> > Why so? Apparently the lead they ingest destroys their gizzards and as a
> > result they cannot grind their food properly and THEY STARVE TO DEATH. So
> > in this instance I am all for the elimination of lead shot for hunting and
> > range "fun". The good news is that with the continuous laying down of new
> > detritus at the bottom of ponds makes this problem becomes less of a issue
> > in fairly short order, so any calls to "dredge" are completely stupid.
> >
> >
> >
> > New topic: From the e-mails flying back and forth between Joe and Kay it
> > would appear we are too late with respect to the European Parliament - at
> > least for now? However, with respect to the leachate testing that is
> > going
> > to be carried out on behalf of IPC membership or whatever, it seems to me
> > that here in this instance there is still time to have further discussion,
> > even if the timeline for the work is drawn out a little. To one extent or
> > another Joe Fjelstad, Greg Munie, Gordon Davy, Brain Ellis and others have
> > expressed what I consider reasonable apprehension in the validity of the
> > proposed work as it is currently set out. Cannot, either now through this
> > forum or at the IPC Annual Meeting, we revisit this important topic and
> > come up with a more realistic test plan? As I mentioned to Joe off line
> > we
> > really need the following to do this right:
> >
> > "What we need is a dump where we know there is a significant amount of
> > electronic waste, a garbologist, an ecologist, a bio-inorganic chemist, a
> > top notch analytical chemist and someof "us". Now THAT would be the right
> > kind of committee to come up with a proper test to look for possible lead
> > leachate from a real landfill!"
> >
> > I have changed "one of us" to "some of us". Now I don't know who was on
> > the committee, but I wonder if any of them fit into any of the categories
> > but the last one? So, IPC, can we do this or not? I want to see
> > something
> > useful come out of the testing.
> >
> > Bev Christian
> > Research in Motion
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Davy, Gordon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: August 26, 2002 12:32 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [LF] Shooting range
> >
> >
> > Greg Munie has posted info on the lack of lead in the water near a
> > shooting
> > range, which was quite disconcerting to those who already knew
> > differently.
> > As has become clear, using science to resolve political disputes is not
> > very effective. We are witnessing the renaissance of superstition in the
> > most techologically sophisticated culture that has ever existed.
> >
> > Here's a reposting from three years ago on the decision by the US Army
> > (Wired News, July 20, 1999). This article doesn't mention that the
> > tungsten
> > bullets cost sixteen times as much as lead bullets. I also recall reading
> > about how at least one Army site is removing all the lead in the ground at
> > its shooting range because of environmental concerns.
> >
> >
> >
> > Killed with Kindness
> > The US Army's new tungsten bullet will still splatter your guts against
> > the
> > wall, but at least the environment will be spared all that icky lead
> > contained in the traditional slug. According to Reuters, the Army is
> > replacing its lead bullets -- which leave a residue harmful to sediment,
> > surface water, and groundwater -- with tungsten-based slugs. Since the
> > pulverized organs of an enemy soldier are completely biodegradable, this
> > appears to be a win-win situation for all concerned.
> >
> > Gordon Davy
> > Baltimore, MD
> > 410-993-7399
> >
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