David,
My apologies, after rerereading my e-mail I see your point.
It is intended that the PCB designer not only attend, but be
the focal point, since everyone's input will directly affect the
PCB design.
I wrote in haste, not explaining I myself am a PCB designer.
Thus when I wrote:
"I've thrown my hands in the air and arranged a design meeting
that included........"
I should have clarified that I am the the PCB designer that does the
leg work in when, where, who of the meetings.
Sorry for the confusion. Nice to know this type of teamwork is
being practiced elsewhere!
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of David
Ricketts
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Redesign Via in Pad
Dennis,
If I have misread your e-mail, please forgive me. But I find it interesting
that you attribute comments (actually hearsay) from your PCB designer, but
that person is not included in your meeting. Even if your designer has
nothing to contribute, which I doubt, your designer will have a chance to
learn from the inputs of the entire team, of which he or she should be an
integral part. After all, if the entire focus of the meeting is the PCB
design, how can the designer garner respect for the company if the designer
is not included.
I have been in this business for 25 years (so I know what you mean by an
age-old problem), starting out as the guy left out of the meetings to now
being the guy who calls them together. If you have a senior PCB designer in
your midst, you have a valuable resource. It's important that they
understand the relationship of their work with respect to everyone else. The
list of people you called in to your design meeting is a great start. Don't
forget to include your designer.
David Ricketts
Pertek Engineering
Voice: 949-475-4485
Fax: 949-475-4493
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
Dennis Ward
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 12:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Redesign Via in Pad
The age old problem that never seems to go away. Basically,
I've thrown my hands in the air and arranged a design meeting that
included the engineer, contract manufacturer, manufacturing engineer,
mechanical engineer, compliance engineer and manager so that these
issues can be "discussed". Then when all parties are present they can
present the issues, then the manager or whoever has the authority can
make the necessary decisions.
To often we are placed in these types of position, when we really don't
have the authority to make that call. For all you know there may be such
a large profit margin on said product that low yields may not be an issue
(highly doubt it!). Also you hate to do something that does effect yield and
have the engineer say "the PCB designer said it was okay".
Sorry for the pessimistic view, but I've seen it to often. Besides these
design meetings can be very productive and educational for everyone.
After a few of these meetings you start to notice engineers start to take
into
account everyone's need in order to avoid getting beat on in these meetings.
It is a slow process and takes patience, but it will pay of in the end.
Whatever you decide good luck!
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
Kozlyk, Terry
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:35 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Redesign Via in Pad
Yes....I heard of this problem....
Whenever our engineers ask us to do so, we refuse, as we know it creates
this assembly/reflow problem. We as PCB Designers want to design PCB"S that
assemble properly, so knowing this in advance helps. It's an ideal RF design
which would have the via within the pad, BUT it creates a manufacturing ( &
lower yield) problem.
Instead, we give them several more vias near the pad & closer to it....
I am interested in hearing how others handle this also.....
Regards
TDK
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zweigart, Siegmund [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:09 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [DC] Redesign Via in Pad
>
>
> Hello to all
>
> We have to redesign different board's because of Via in Pad:
> Situation now:
> FR4, thickness 1,5 mm, OCC finish
> Through Hole Vias in Pads (middle, diameter 0,15..0,3 mm)
>
> The problem is the sucking of solder form to the top to the
> bottom side
> (causing low solder on top and bumps on test points on the
> bottom side)
> Because of place limitations dog bones can't probably not be used.
>
> What is your recommendation?
> Using Blind Vias (problem of Voids in the solder joint?) ?
> Epoxy (with Ag or what else) filled Vias?
> Vias on the edge of the pad?
> More ideas?
>
> All input is welcome
>
> Best regards
>
> Siggi
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> -
> Kind regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Dr. Siegmund Zweigart
>
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