Happy new year to all!
In regards with this discussion, I need to bring up an interesting point.
Even though I will be blasted, please do not forget that our industry does
not require much in terms of quality, since the only thing we have to worry
about is cost reduction. ISO deals with everything, including those machined
parts for which forgetting to design a channel, that allows for the grinding
stone to polish up to the end of the surface, would cause the shaft to fail
a lot faster than expected.
In electronics assembly we deal with tolerances of 1mm, in the heavy
industry the micron will make a difference. So there, the need of CE is not
even to be discussed. Not to mention the need for interchangeability.
Peter has brought a very good point about the meaning of the ISO
certification and this is a big failure of the system. They should
eventually provide benchmarking means. Like this we could count apples only.
Now, I will advocate the need for standards. And for this, let's not forget
Eli Goldratt's continuous improvement. The procedures and the internal
documents, like DFM checklists or Kanban lists, should be periodically
revised, whether the company is ISO certified or not. The management should
reinforce quality, whether the company is ISO certified or not. So, in the
end, the ISO model can be seen as a collection of templates one can use to
derive internal standards, that should also be periodically revised.
Let's not forget the standard that turned us from promiscuous beasts into
"the man on the moon". And I'm talking about the 10 commandements. But the
Bible should have been revised when the inquisition emerged. And the various
religions should be revised now, when killers claim sanctuary and call for
jihad.
To answer the original question, well, Earl, we do CE and it works. The DFM
documents are followed, the manufacturing engineering personnel seats in the
design reviews. And the results are good, there are no major design changes
between the protos and the production batches. Unfortunately, I can't be
speciffic about the standard points that you inquired on.
In conclusion, we need standards, but they must be continuously improved and
they should be continuously debated, just like we do now. Don't take them
for granted, don't be defensive during audits, but be constructive, do your
homework and try to get answers from the auditors.
Regards,
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Moon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:10 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] DFM/CE AND ISO 9000/2000
>
> If interested, and who's not absolutely caught up in this all, the
> following
> site will provide answers to all your questions concerning ISO:
> http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/ISOOnline.frontpage
>
> Though this is not the discussion I intended, some good and bad ISO points
> have been made that are of particular interest when I look at DFM/CE and
> how
> it could be affected by similar viewpoints. After all that's been written
> and applied about it, some still frown on the concept, though not always
> the
> reality, as being too restrictive. We don't need no stinkin' CE to get it
> right as they go for it time after time with little success. I know of few
> on this forum who would disagree with, what they probably have often said,
> they have time to do it over but no time to do it right the first time.
>
> Concerning one of Peter's comments, I submit the "new" ISO 9000 document
> certainly is "stronger" if shalls have anything to do with it. However, we
> all know it's not the paper's strength that matters as much as the people,
> starting with management in any type organization, that change the paper
> into reality and use it. How well, WITH OR WITHOUT ISO, is up to them.
>
> MoonMan
>
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