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January 2002

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From:
Edward Szpruch <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum.
Date:
Tue, 1 Jan 2002 19:11:16 +0200
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Brian,
Nice example,but:
SME boss can blame not the ISO, but the consultants and the manuals he
prepared.ISO request monitoring:yes .ISO request calibration procedures
:yes.But ISO does not specify what should be monitored and how often
calibrated.
My example about calibration: the pH meter in the lab must be calibrated
with pH 7 and 10 standarts before each pH measurement of alkaline etching
solution where accuracy of 0.1 pH is requested and crucial.
But pH meters in wastewater treatment system are calibrated  once a
month.The operator has to check once a day if pH meter is responding.
Frequency and accuracy of calibration was set according according to our
experience and needs.
Edward

Edward Szpruch
Eltek Ltd
P.O.Box 159 ; 49101 Petah Tikva Israel
Tel  ++972 3 9395050 , Fax  ++972 3 9309581
e-mail   [log in to unmask]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ellis [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: ג ינואר 01 2002 17:20
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      Re: [TN] DFM/CE AND ISO 9000/2000
> 
> Earl
> 
> I can cite you one case from my personal knowledge. However, I shall not
> mention names or places for reasons that will become apparent.
> 
> It is the case of an SME in a village of 2,000 inhabitants, employing
> about 25 persons, in the electronics assembly business, at the high-tech
> end of the scale. Their turnover was about $3.5M. Their clientele was
> essentially in the professional instrumentation business, but 90% of
> their turnover was with 3 customers (admittedly quite dangerous, but
> let's not go into that). About 10 or 12 years ago, one of their big
> customers indicated a requirement that the company obtain ISO 9000
> certification, even though they never had any quality problems with what
> was supplied. They prevaricated until this happened with the second one,
> a few months later, and it became obvious that they were going to have
> to do something. Again, there was no need to improve their quality.
> Knowing little about it, the boss asked around and his customers
> recommended a consultant, expert in ISO 9000 matters, whom he called in.
> A plan was made and started off. The manual was written according to
> their existing processes, but this implied the need to conduct things
> like checking the temperature of the temperature indicators in their
> reflow ovens against standard instruments, traceable to national
> standards, which he had to buy - and they were not cheap. Before, he had
> relied on the fact that the inbuilt Pt100 resistance thermometers were
> not likely to go off calibration significantly and, even if one did, the
> results would be immediately visible. So it can be said that the quality
> of the products altered not a jot. Then he discovered that establishing
> and filing the additional paperwork was occupying too much time of his
> senior production personnel and the latter's lack of availability was
> causing the quality to actually drop. So he engaged a specific QC
> manager (not cheap) whose terms of reference were to do everything
> necessary to ensure that all the requirements of his ISO 9002
> certificate were complied with, that the paperwork was kept correctly
> and to ensure that the certifying authority's annual audit passed
> smoothly. Up to this point, it had cost him an estimated $500,000 in
> consultant's fees, pre-audit and audit fees, time required internally, a
> year's salary for the QC manager, purchases, tracing calibration
> instruments etc. As this was greater than the previous year's net
> profit, it was no surprise that he started to make a loss, but the boss
> decided that the following year would produce some benefit. He announced
> to his customers that his selling prices would have to be increased by a
> few cents per assembly, but this was just as the recession started and
> he was told in no uncertain terms that, au contraire, he would have to
> reduce his selling prices to continue working with them. He had no
> choice but to comply, even though the orders were coming in slower and
> smaller. He desperately sought further afield to obtain new business but
> was told that he was too expensive and obtained little extra work. He
> slimmed down the personnel but he dared not rid himself of the one
> person who was costing him most: the QC manager. Down from 25 to 10
> persons, he finally had to start making arrangements with his creditors
> and seeking external help. In a way, he was lucky, because he found a
> buyer (one of his much larger competitors, one who was one notch
> downmarket in quality) who offered to purchase 95% of his company at its
> audited value, put in a few million to restart it again, but who would
> do the management. His first action was to go round their clients and
> explain to them that their insistence on ISO 9002 certification had
> taken the company down to its knees and they would abandon it, but,
> after ascertaining that the quality of the products supplied had not
> improved in the three years since their demand to comply, he assured
> them that they would continue to supply the same quality AND drop their
> prices as a result. Since then, they pulled themselves up by their
> bootlaces (without a QC manager) and, today, they are in a better
> position than ever, without ISO 9000 certification, the original bossman
> having repurchased the company back from his buyer, who was under the
> illusion that the hi-tech market was going to pay back his investment
> better.
> 
> I agree that this has little to do with DFM/CE, but it illustrates that
> there is a danger to the health of SMEs by being bullied into ISO 9000
> certification. What counts is the quality of the product, not a neat
> certificate on the wall of the boss's office. IMHO, it is often
> counter-productive for large companies to insist on it from their
> suppliers. It stifles innovation and increases costs without necessarily
> any concomitant improvement of quality. It is not even certain that he
> would not have had some conjunctural difficulties without the ISO 9000
> story, but it certainly made a big contribution and is almost sure to
> have tipped the balance into the red.
> 
> The boss of this company is a fairly close friend and I visited his
> brand new factory for the opening this year. This story is not unique: I
> know another similar case in a different country where, although it was
> not quite as dramatic, suffered along the same lines and only just
> survived. However, the worst case I know of is a larger, privately-owned
> multinational with an excellent reputation for quality products, with
> 600 employees in 4 locations world-wide. Their profits diminished with
> ISO 9001 certification in 1992 (granted, they went the whole hog by
> applying everything bureaucratically down to the way they purchased
> their toilet paper). They sold out a few months ago to a competitor,
> with a hole in their accounts of some $15M. Again, I can't be sure that
> there is total cause and effect, but their ISO 9001 certification
> certainly did not help - and this was not an SME but was previously a
> very profitable concern.
> 
> Of course, there are companies that have profited from ISO 9000
> certification, but my advice is not to think twice before going ahead if
> you are an SME: think a dozen times, at least. OTOH, DO implement DFM/CE
> measures without hesitation: this is a much surer way of improving
> quality and lowering overall costs.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Brian
> 
> Earl Moon wrote:
> >
> > Brian and Edward,
> >
> > I really appreciate your points of view. This is exactly the kind of
> > discussion for which I hoped as a primer for more technical type talks.
> I am
> > not taking a stance here or in my book - but to offer options to improve
> > product quality within an organization dedicated to DFM/CE, based on a
> > standard like ISO and the wisdom it offers some. There always will be
> > different interpretations and opinions as to how a valuable tool, or
> not,
> > should be used, how well it will be used, and the extent of its use.
> >
> > While respecting your view points, I must say that in no way does ISO,
> much
> > as did MIL-STD-2000, tell an organization how something SHALL be done.
> It
> > simply says it SHALL be done. Therefore, an organization must say and do
> > that which is DEMANDED, or not be registered. I does leave the
> "creative"
> > process up to the organization and those CLEARLY responsible for its
> > success, from first registration through all continuous process
> improvement
> > phases. No where does any ISO requirement say, as an example, you SHALL
> hang
> > SPC paper over each wall in your organization. It does say, based on
> NEED,
> > say what you do and do what you say.
> >
> > My thesis in all this is simple. There always are better ways to do a
> job. I
> > believe it to be foolish if a good tool, or guideline, is supplied for
> > process and product improvement, and it is not recognized as such and
> put to
> > good use.
> >
> > What I'm really looking for are some success or failure stories
> concerning
> > ISO 9000 as clear examples of what works or doesn't for whomever.
> > Specifically, I'm looking for these stories as they pertain to section
> 7.3
> > and its clearly stated requirements as the 20 or so shall statements.
> Again,
> > I'm not taking sides in a debate. I'm just trying to get the facts men,
> > women, and any other interested beings. Brian and Ed, I'm sure you have
> such
> > stories - beyond classic, or not literature - though I happen to be a
> > Shakespeare fan with a much more limited vocabulary. I think that's
> apparent.
> >
> > Thanks again guys and, as always, appreciate your very valuable input to
> the
> > forum,
> >
> > Earl
> >
> >
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