In a message dated 9/14/00 4:30:37 PM EST, [log in to unmask] writes:

<< As an old "Cold Warrior" I found the posting by Werner fascinating. We
 should mourn the lost crew but me thinks too many are too sensitive about a
 taboo subject, the cold war. I hope additional interesting postings come
 from Werner. As a side note, the pressure vessels within the sub would fill
 with water in perhaps a few seconds and depending on the depth, milliseconds.
 John Maxwell >>

Hate to beat this to death...I know it's not technical, but it's not such a
crime to be off-topic just once in a while...hey, it's communicating, and
that's good, right?

I too thought Werners post was interesting...to me it illustrated the sheer
horror that the crew must have been subjected to before they lost their lives
during that "exercise"...I feel very sorry for them...because I feel they
were doomed from the beginning.

I have a great deal of respect for any man that serves on submarines, you
have to be "special" to leave port for months at a time, not have any idea
where you're going, and not be able to see the sun or breath fresh air for
months. There's guys I knew in the Navy that did their whole careers (20+
years) on submarines... I don't know how they did it.

I spent 12-years in the Navy flying P-3 Orions as a flight engineer hunting
subs, so I know first-hand the "cat-and-mouse" games that our submarines and
the Soviet subs played with each other while on patrol.

But the reality of the economic situation presently in the Soviet Union is
why I believe that crew was doomed...

The Soviet Navy is a shambles...although the number of vessels in the various
Russian fleets remains reasonably impressive, the readiness of those fleets
has been deteriorating steadily. You can find credible sources of that
information anywhere, it's no secret. Many ships sit idle in port, lacking
spare parts and, sometimes, even adequately trained crews. The financially
beleaguered government in Moscow frequently lacks the funds to pay for
routine maintenance, to say nothing of operating expenses.

The lack of money to maintain their fleet should concern the families of the
sailors that serve aboard these ships, and the willingness to sell part of
their fleet to other countries should concern other people on the planet. To
wit:

India to purchase naval fleet from city shipyard

India has agreed to purchase a fleet of warships currently based in St
Petersburg. The sale stems from an agreement setting up a joint Russo-Indian
defense commission last December reached in the Indian capital of New Delhi.

St Petersburg's Admiralteysky Shipyard will sell a number of battleships,
several submarines and a range of military technology to the Indian defense
force
immediately after official formalities are over.

Indian defense secretary K A Nambiar told St Petersburg Mayor Anatoly Sobchak
that in the period since the commission was formed, the government of India
had placed construction orders with Russian firms to the value of $1.4
billion.

In 1994, Indian contracts equalled a mere $150 million.Mr Nambiar said that
orders during the Soviet period averaged $1 billion every year.

He added that the Indian government and city ship construction firms are
discussing the possibility of launching a construction bureau in St
Petersburg.

Mr Sobchak hailed the move, saying it would provide St Petersburg with
thousands of new jobs.But he added that India still owed St Petersburg large
sums accumulated in Soviet times.

The mayor suggested India could supply the city with medicine to pay back its
debts. But St Petersburg Indian Consul General Ramiah Rajagopallan said his
government was already examining seven projects to invest the funds in the
city.

Recently, India was about to purchase one of the two Soviet Navy's aircraft
carriers, but declined when it was learned that the ship was in such bad
shape...

I just worry that because of the dire straits (economically) that the Soviets
are in, that a weapon may fall into the wrong hands...

We now return to our regularly scheduled program...

-Steve Gregory-

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