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February 2000

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Subject:
From:
Kenneth Stephens <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:09:59 -0800
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Brian,

Thanks for the explanation and the scientific analysis.  I have only read
articles and done some unscientific observation.  I what started this thread
off was my wondering if anyone had really tried this. You have.  You have
results.  Thanks.

   \----------------------\
    \  Kenneth G. Stephens \
     \ President            \
CAD--->CAD 2 CAM, Inc.       >---CAM
     / www.cad2cam.com      /
    /  503-246-4692        /
   /----------------------/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:51 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Cc: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] PWB CLEANING SOLVENTS
>
>
> Kenneth
>
> Sorry, your explanation, interesting though it may be, does not
> really hold the water
> it is supposed to improve. If you wish to shorten the chain
> length, it would be much
> more energy-efficient to heat it. At low frequencies, the
> Debye-Falkenhagen effect
> would cause the entire molecule clumps to turn, but there would
> never be enough energy
> imparted into DI water to break down the adjacent polar H-O bonds
> between the
> individual molecules. At high frequencies, this might happen, but
> the resultant energy
> absorption would simply be translated into heat and, as I said,
> the status quo would be
> restored as soon as the water passed out from the magnetic field.
>
> I agree with what Mike has to say. One of my aqueous cleaning
> customers was taken in by
> one of these magnetic rip-off artists. He swore that the circuits
> were cleaner as a
> result, the final rinse being done in the "treated" water.
> Inevitably he had problems,
> which were obviously due to our machines and not the water
> quality, by his light.
> Finally, I had the "before" and "after" water analysed by an
> independent lab, at my
> expense, and the two samples were rigourously identical to the
> nearest mg/l. Only then
> did he install a mixed bed DI column and thus cured his problems.
>
> Sorry, I am still sceptical.
>
> Brian
>
> Kenneth Stephens wrote:
>
> > Brian,
> >
> > Liquid water has a complex structure.  The water molecule is bipolar in
> > nature and thus creates columbic bonds( the positive hydrogen
> atoms in the
> > molecule give one end of the molecule a positive charge).  These bonds
> > create chains of water molecules that reduce the active bonding points
> > available to grab other substances into solution.  The length of these
> > chains is proportional to the temperature of the water.  This
> effect causes
> > ice to float.  Liquid water is densest about 4 degrees
> Centigrade because
> > the order created by these chains is the greatest.  Below this
> temperature
> > water starts to crystallize.  Above this temperature the chains
> get shorter.
> > The chains get shorter the higher the temperature of the water, until at
> > boiling( liquid to gas transition) the chain is down to a
> single molecule.
> >
> > The alternating magnetic field breaks up these chains to reveal more
> > columbic bonding locations so that the liquid water actually
> has a higher
> > solubility activity.
> >
> > Ken Stephens
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 12:25 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Cc: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [TN] PWB CLEANING SOLVENTS
> > >
> > >
> > > Kenneth
> > >
> > > I am very sceptical of this. The only effect I could see it
> > > having would be to heat the
> > > water somewhat, depending on the energy consumed, through eddy
> > > currents. If the
> > > frequency were high enough, it is conceivable that the
> > > equilibrium of H+ and OH- ions
> > > may be increased, which may make the water, when actually in the
> > > magnetic field, more
> > > reactive, but it would return to normal within milliseconds as
> > > soon as the water left
> > > the magnetic field. I think I would class this pretty much in the
> > > same category as
> > > placing magnets round a copper pipe  to prevent lime scale
> from forming!
> > >
> > > If anyone has further details to allay my scepticism, I would
> > > welcome them.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > Kenneth Stephens wrote:
> > >
> > > > Has anyone tried adding a stage to their DI water where it
> > > passes through a
> > > > strong alternating magnetic field?  This process would increase the
> > > > solubility of the water.  I read some reports in the early
> 1980s where
> > > > Soviet Pulp Mills were using this process to remove scale in
> > > their tanks.
> > > >
> > > > Just a wonderment.
> > > >
> > > >    \----------------------\
> > > >     \  Kenneth G. Stephens \
> > > >      \ President            \
> > > > CAD--->CAD 2 CAM, Inc.       >---CAM
> > > >      / www.cad2cam.com      /
> > > >     /  503-246-4692        /
> > > >    /----------------------/
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Pat Kane
> > > > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 5:48 AM
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TN] PWB CLEANING SOLVENTS
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Douglas
> > > > >
> > > > > Our evaluations of cleaning OA fluxes with DI water only, has
> > > shown that
> > > > > there are still corrosive residual levels of contaminants
> left on the
> > > > > surfaces of the PCB.  These corrosive residues have direct
> > > impact on field
> > > > > performance of your product.  When the DI water is heated,
> > > the levels do
> > > > > decrease slightly but the residues are still present at
> > > levels that pose a
> > > > > risk of electromigration and field failures.  The addition of
> > > a saponifier
> > > > > substantially reduces the residues to acceptable levels.
> > > Many people have
> > > > > added heating systems to the DI water and attempted to
> eliminate the
> > > > > saponifier as a cost reducing measure, only to find the resulting
> > > > > cleanliness
> > > > > levels are too high and the product is at risk for field failure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Generally, we recommend a customer evaluate the cleaning
> process by
> > > > > performing a baseline assessment of their current activity before
> > > > > any changes
> > > > > are made in the cleaning process or flux selection.  This gives a
> > > > > reference
> > > > > point to evaluate the impact of subsequent changes.
> Evaluations with
> > > > > customers have shown that the combination of hot DI water in
> > > addition to
> > > > > using a saponifier have proven to be the best at removing
> > > > > processing residues
> > > > > to acceptable levels.  Subsequent evaluation can be made at
> > > this point to
> > > > > determine the concentration level of saponifier required in your
> > > > > process to
> > > > > achieve adequate cleaning.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps.  If you need more information, please
> > > contact me off line
> > > > > for more information.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Pat Kane
> > > > > Technical Sales Manager
> > > > > Contamination Studies Laboratories
> > > > > 765-457-8095
> > > > >
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian Ellis
> > > Protonique SA
> > > PO Box 78
> > > CH-1032 Romanel-sur-Lausanne, Switzerland
> > > Voice: +41 21-648 23 34 Fax: +41 21-648 24 11
> > > E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> > > URL: Technical and consultancy divisions:
> > >        http://www.protonique.com
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> > >
> > >
> >
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>
> --
> Brian Ellis
> Protonique SA
> PO Box 78
> CH-1032 Romanel-sur-Lausanne, Switzerland
> Voice: +41 21-648 23 34 Fax: +41 21-648 24 11
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> URL: Technical and consultancy divisions:
>        http://www.protonique.com
>      Web services division:
>        http://www.protonique.com/webserv
>
>

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