John, I should have said the discs for hard drives. There used to be pretty
good money in Electroless nickel plating on discs. What I was trying to say
was that the electroless nickel was aimed at decorative and functional
application on autocatalytic surfaces before it was used as a pc board finish.
At 02:49 PM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>For hard drives? is that the flex or the rigid board?
>
>John
>------------------------------------
>Avanex
>John Burke
>Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
>[log in to unmask]
>40919 Encyclopedia Circle
>Fremont
>CA 94538
>tel: 510 897 4250
>fax: 510 979 0189
>mobile: 510 676 6312
>------------------------------------
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cheryl Johnson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:49 PM
>To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; John Burke
>Subject: RE: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>
>Well I am a wife, don't have a tail (hair down to my waist, though...)
>In any case, I have been using ENIG for several years with no problems.
>
>HOWEVER, recently our off shore fab house is wanting us to go to "OSP over
>copper".
>
>Any comments? Thank you!
>
>Sincerely,
>-----------------------------------
>Cheryl Johnson, C.I.D.+
>Manager
>ExcelStor US Office, Engineering Services
>Email: [log in to unmask]
>Tel: (303) 684-7291
>Fax: (303) 684-7268
>Mobile: (303) 809-5815
>-----------------------------------
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:16 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>
>Yup.......................
>
>Lets change the chemistry topic...............Ice cream anyone??
>
>John
>
>------------------------------------
>Avanex
>John Burke
>Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
>[log in to unmask]
>40919 Encyclopedia Circle
>Fremont
>CA 94538
>tel: 510 897 4250
>fax: 510 979 0189
>mobile: 510 676 6312
>------------------------------------
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:09 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>
>It must be Friday for some of us:)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Ball
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:48 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>......unnnnh........no tail.......wife..........must
>resist.........arrrrgh....
>
>
>
>
> Steve Hodge
> <[log in to unmask]> To:
>[log in to unmask]
> Sent by: TechNet cc:
> <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re:
>[TN] <Misc>Re: [TN]
> <Misc>Re:
>[TN] RoHs board surface
> 08/11/2005 03:36 PM
>recommendations.
> Please respond to TechNet
> E-Mail Forum; Please
> respond to Steve Hodge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>George, I am sorry you feel you have to downgrade my opinion as being a
>sales pitch or "wife's tail". I am stating data -substantiated facts and
>I could care less about selling something to you or anyone else. A
>wife's tail? What? My wife does not have a tail. I think it should be
>"wive's tale" anyway.
>
>At 12:30 PM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
> >John,
> >
> >Your opinionated! but then too so am I. However, it sounds like our
> >opinions are based on data and not "wife's tails" or "sales pitches"
> >
> >Regards,
> >George
> >George M. Wenger
> >Reliability / FMA Engineer
> >Base Station and Subsystems Group
> >Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 (908)
> >546-4531 [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke
> >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:16 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
> >
> >
> >Very nice,
> >
> >Until you consider that ENIG infringes the design rules for at least
> >one
>of
> >the top 3 global CM's due to the issues associated with it.
> >
> >If you want the number of their chief technologist who has to look at
>enigma
> >failures week in week out I will happily supply details off line.
> >
> >I personally have built hundreds of thousands of assemblies on ENIG as
>well
> >as Immersion AG.
> >
> >As for the rest, HASL is generally failure related to a complete lack
> >of understanding of tin thickness and intermetallic growth rate, OSP
> >failures generally are related to not understanding the degradation of
> >that finish with multiple reflow cycling, and personally I would never
> >use immersion
>tin
> >without some type of diffusion barrier between it and the copper if nay
>time
> >in storage was to be considered.
> >
> >The ENIG when it fails can be catastrophic............and in most cases
>can
> >be pointed back to the process at the fab house rather than what
> >happened
>to
> >it during the assembly process, unlike most of the other finish
> >defects,
>and
> >has to my knowledge resulted in multi million dollar lawsuits between
> >companies in the bay area due to failures.
> >
> >If it doesn't fail - it is fine, but the joint shear strength is less
> >than the equivalent HASL or immersion AG finish due to the Tin
> >nickel/nickel copper crystalline structure, so taking into
> >consideration the higher temperatures of lead free I would be vary
> >careful using it for area array packages using this soldering
>technology.
> >
> >For the record have been using immersion silver since 1996 as I
> >produced
>the
> >first beta site production runs using alpha level, so perhaps my views
>have
> >a little more history.
> >
> >Call me opinionated - I'll take it.
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >Avanex
> >John Burke
> >Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
> >[log in to unmask]
> >40919 Encyclopedia Circle
> >Fremont
> >CA 94538
> >tel: 510 897 4250
> >fax: 510 979 0189
> >mobile: 510 676 6312
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Steve Hodge [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:44 AM
> >To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; John Burke
> >Subject: Re: <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
> >
> >
> >John, come on now. Anything can happen at any time. I have seen some
> >reservations from the IS users as to silver migration possibilities and
>
> >shelf life/handling issues --you might say they have not seen them
>--"yet".
> >I have had more problems with HASL, OSP and IT than I have with ENIG.
> >ENIG has longer data history than IS, so both shoes have already
> >dropped so to speak. Three years without problems, is an eternity in
> >this business, especially when we are expected to build custom
>products in 24 hours.
> >
> >
> >At 11:00 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
> > >with it............YET..........
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >Avanex
> > >John Burke
> > >Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
> > >[log in to unmask]
> > >40919 Encyclopedia Circle
> > >Fremont
> > >CA 94538
> > >tel: 510 897 4250
> > >fax: 510 979 0189
> > >mobile: 510 676 6312
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Edwin Louis
> > >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 4:48 AM
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
> > >
> > >
> > >We have been using ENIG now for about three years and have had no bad
>
> > >experiences with it. NASA for one does not allow the use of silver .
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Werner Engelmaier
> > >Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:57 PM
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
> > >
> > >Hi Steve,
> > >I do not know about "bad-mouth ENIG"--I am a reliability consultant,
> > >and have had plenty of calls because of ENIG related failures, but
> > >not a one
>about
> > >iAg. On the other hand, I do not know about their respective
>environmental
> > >implications.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Werner Engelmaier
> > >Engelmaier Associates, L.C.
> > >Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting
> > >7 Jasmine Run
> > >Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA
> > >Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737, Cell: 386-316-5904
> > >E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com
> > >
> > >
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