Hi Dave,
Semantics, I realise, but my dictionary does not confine itself to our
industry, so joining a lead pipe to another with tin or a tin lead alloy is
soldering, but not as we know it.
I attended a soldering and brazing conference dinner some years ago when the
outgoing president of the Institute of Metals (as was) started his speech by
noting that the Romans were known to have been soldering over 2,000 years
ago. He then leant forward, for emphasis, and said "Gentlemen, why haven't
you got it right yet?"
Well, we can only keep trying.
Regards
Eric Dawson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Hillman [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:59 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
>
> Hi Eric! Just a word of clarification - yes it is true that you do not
> need
> to make an intermetallic to create a reliable joint provided the two
> elements you are working with form a solid solution couple. However, the
> action of creating a solder joint is not the joining of tin and lead but
> the joining of a tin/lead alloy with copper - the formation of a
> copper/tin
> intermetallic is critical for a reliable solder connection. Hanson's book
> is a great reference - you may also want to take a look at the new edition
> of the American Welding Society (AWS) handbook (3rd edition) for
> inclusion
> in your library (ISBN 0-87171-618-6). Dr. Paul Vianco and the AWS
> committee
> did an wonderful job of updating the handbook with new material (lots of
> phase diagrams, references, etc.).
>
> Dave Hillman
> Rockwell Collins
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric Dawson <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 10/23/2001 02:14:04 AM
>
> Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> cc:
>
> Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
>
>
> Guy,
> I'm now curious. Why little old ladies? what were they making with these
> wired nails? and why were you watching them?
> I hope I don't regret asking these questions, we know what happened to the
> curious cat!
> On a more serious note, and to address the original question,
> intermetallics
> will form between two metals when that is the stable reaction. See
> Hanson's
> 'Constitution of Binary Alloys.' This is a very good standard reference
> work, though probably out of print by now. It is known that the Romans
> soldered lead piping for their plumbing systems (plumbum-lead) and this
> would not have formed any intermetallic even though good joints were made.
> In this case the tin and lead form a solid solution which is the stable
> product of the two metals involved. Therefore, it is not strictly correct
> to
> say that an intermetallic is a requirement for a good soldered joint,
> rather, that the intermetallic is a product of a good soldered joint
> between
> copper and tin or iron and tin.
> The flux is there to remove oxides and allow the solder and the base metal
> to come into intimate contact and to aid heat transfer.
> Regards
> Eric Dawson
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Guy Ramsey [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 7:51 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
> >
> > It must be flux strength. I have watched little old ladies solder wires
> to
> > nails. They were using zinc chloride. Destroyed the solder iron tips but
> > did
> > what they wanted.
> >
> > We also made some custom tips for Pace solder pens. They were stainless,
> > we
> > solder plated them too. They did not last as long nor work as good as
> the
> > store bought ones but they were less expensive. We did not measure the
> tip
> > temperature offset . . . oh yeah you were only asking about soldering
> iron
> > .
> > . . ramble on.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bev Christian
> > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 2:34 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, let me try saying this a different way:
> > > it "seems" that the canning industry has an easy time putting tin on
> can
> > > steel. Why do I have trouble getting solder to stick to a properly
> > > preheated 100% iron surface? Is it just a matter of flux strength?
> Or
> > > something else?
> > >
> > > Bev Christian
> > > Research in Motion
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mel Parrish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: October 22, 2001 4:17 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
> > >
> > >
> > > Dr Bev,
> > > Not sure what your question is but for discussion. Many of the common
> > > component lead frames contain significant amounts of iron which
> > > is plated to
> > > enhance solderability, limit corrosion, etc.. Seems that there should
> > be
> > > some metallurgists out there that can lead us to understanding the
> > > solubility characteristics but my text books discuss FeSn
> intermetalics
> > > although the rate is slower that that of tin gold or tin copper.
> > > Also seems
> > > to me that the Nickel content is important to the solder interface.
> > >
> > > Mel Parrish
> > > Soldering Technology International
> > > 102 Tribble Drive
> > > Madison, AL 35758
> > > 256 705 5530
> > > 256 705 5538 Fax
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bev Christian
> > > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 2:01 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, here is a general question for all you met guys. But I am not
> sure
> > I
> > > can explain it well enough to be understood!
> > >
> > > We all know that tin can be put on iron or we wouldn't have "tin"
> cans.
> > I
> > > also know it is difficult to put solder on iron. So my question
> > > is this: if
> > > one has a tinned iron surface and it is put into molten solder
> > > the tin will
> > > be dissolved into the molten solder. I presume when the piece of iron
> > is
> > > withdrawn from the pot, solder will be well adhered to the iron. Is
> > this
> > > because there is a solderable tin/iron intermetallic? What is the
> main
> > > difference between the tin can process and putting solder directly on
> > iron
> > > that makes one easy to do and the other difficult? This may be a
> "first
> > > grade" met question, but I don't know the answer. Thanks.
> > >
> > > Bev Christian
> > >
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