William,
We are using both the mole gold with reflow rider and wave rider, and also
have recently purchased the KIC prophet and SlimKIC system.
For reflow:
The mole gold software is good and very user friendly, and the auto-predict
got us "close" to the profile.
On the other hand, the SlimKIC module is great, especially not having to deal
with wires, and we can pop the slimkic into the oven right in the middle of a
production run and see the profile while the furnace is loaded (the prophet
system shows us some of this info also), and the KIC reflow profiling software
takes a little more getting used to, but is really not bad after a few profiles,
and the auto-predict is ABSOLUTELY AWE-INSPIRING! It uses the shultz index to do
what-if's, you tell it which parameters you allow it to modify, and so far after
running a preliminary profile, the auto predict has allowed us to be on the
money with the next profile, each time! I usually only get this excited after 3
mountain dew's, but it really is impressive. Anyway, both systems are good
systems. Good luck.
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: Re: [TN] Thermal Profilers
Author: William Chan <[log in to unmask]> at Internet
Date: 8/20/98 6:24 PM
Hi Michael,
i have some questions regarding your success with the Kic Prophet Profiler.
Kic has recently came to us demonstrating the Slim Kic II and the Prophet.
The AutoPredict is one of the feature that caught my attention. We have
been using Datapaq Reflow2000 and we have no success with the AutoPredict
whatsoever. We like using it for profiling because it is a very reliable
and low maintenance profiler. But the autopredict in datapaq does not even
predict close to the desired temp in many of our products (can be off by
100F). This is largely due to the complexity and the variations of the
boards we built. -- many with large shields and heatsinks, many with
extremely dense components etc. We run more than 100 different products.
Do you think the Kic Prophet AutoPredict will work with our products?
William Chan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McMonagle, Michael R. [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 10:03 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Thermal Profilers
>
> Ryan,
> I have used both Datapaq and Gold Moles in previous locations,
> and have KIC Prophet and Wave Solder Optimizer here. I have been very
> happy with both the KIC and the Optimizer in production.
>
> We are using the wireless KIC systems throughout the facility (4
> lines, 8 ovens) and it's great not to have to hard cable and dump the
> data into a PC after profiling. We are using the Predictive Profiling
> feature and find it to be extremely accurate and a great time saver. We
> can start with a generic profile, run the results through Prediction
> based on what we want to realize in the optimum profile, make the
> suggested changes to speed/temp and run one more time to validate.
> Basically two passes and we're done. We are also starting to use the
> Virtual Profiling function, which correlates your profile plot to the
> temperatures measured by the permanent KIC thermocouples mounted within
> the oven during actual production runs. Using this feature is a good
> indicator that your process is within the control limits you have
> established during your original profile. All of our KIC control PCs are
> wired into our network for printing purposes, and we are working to
> output the Virtual Profiling screens in real time to our intranet for
> 'hands-off' process monitoring. All in all a very nice system.
>
> The Wave Solder Optimizer is also an excellent tool for creation
> of wave profiles and regular validation of critical machine/process
> parameters. I have found that it is not quite as accurate for measuring
> preheat effect on topside board temperature as thermocouples attached to
> a board, or an infrared pyrometer. This is due to the thickness of the
> carrier laminate soaking up more heat than a real board. However, you
> normally have a decent process window for topside temperature, so it's
> not really an big issue. It does offer all other required functions such
> as wave time/temp, depth of contact, parallelism of wave, etcetera. It
> also can hold four data sets, so you don't have to run to the PC to dump
> data continually. It also can display the data on the profiler itself in
> rudimentary form to assist in analysis without going to the PC. The PC
> data output manipulation is pretty good, hard data as well as graphs.
> Overall, another good tool to make our lives a little easier.
>
> Mike McMonagle
> PCA Process Engineering Supervisor
> K*Tec Electronics
> 1111 Gillingham Lane
> Sugar Land, TX 77478
> (281) 243-5639 Phone
> (281) 243-5539 Fax
> [log in to unmask]
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ryan Chase [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 9:33 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Thermal Profilers
> >
> > Good day,
> >
> > I am currently searching for a thermal profiler. We currently have
> > an Electrovert EPK wave solder and we are just determining which
> > reflow oven we are going to purchase. I would like to find the right
> > combination to profile both of these machines.
> >
> > My choices are:
> >
> > Wave Solder Optimizer & Datapaq
> > Mole & Waverider
> > Kic profiler
> >
> > My question is basically, what do other people use? The functioning
> > of the unit is basically the same all around but the software is the
> > important part. I have used moles in the past and I downloaded the
> > Kic demo. Has anyone used the Datapaq profiler?
> >
> > Do I need a special profiler for the wave?
> >
> > Any help is appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ryan Chase
> > Manufacturing Engineer
> > GE Harris
> > 403-214-4502
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
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