I thought I read somewhere that Adam soldered a button on his fig leaf so it
would not fall down. Sorry I can't recall the source.
Ron Dieselberg
Trainer/Auditor
CMC ELECTRONICS
CINCINNATI
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Fenner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
Just to continue this diversion for historical completeness:
there are
paintings on Egyptian tombs showing soldering of jewellery
in some sort of
production line (at least the workers are sitting in rows)
which go back
3,500 years.
Having said "completeness" I now half expect someone else to
remind us
something about the South Americans or Chinese......
Best regards
Mike Fenner
Applications Engineer, European Operations
Indium Corporation
T: + 44 1908 580 400
M: + 44 7810 526 317
F: + 44 1908 580 411
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.indium.com
Leadfree: http://Pb-Free.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Eric
Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:36 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
Hi Dave,
Semantics, I realise, but my dictionary does not confine
itself to our
industry, so joining a lead pipe to another with tin or a
tin lead alloy is
soldering, but not as we know it.
I attended a soldering and brazing conference dinner some
years ago when the
outgoing president of the Institute of Metals (as was)
started his speech by
noting that the Romans were known to have been soldering
over 2,000 years
ago. He then leant forward, for emphasis, and said
"Gentlemen, why haven't
you got it right yet?"
Well, we can only keep trying.
Regards
Eric Dawson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Hillman [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:59 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
>
> Hi Eric! Just a word of clarification - yes it is true
that you do not
> need
> to make an intermetallic to create a reliable joint
provided the two
> elements you are working with form a solid solution
couple. However, the
> action of creating a solder joint is not the joining of
tin and lead but
> the joining of a tin/lead alloy with copper - the
formation of a
> copper/tin
> intermetallic is critical for a reliable solder
connection. Hanson's book
> is a great reference - you may also want to take a look at
the new edition
> of the American Welding Society (AWS) handbook (3rd
edition) for
> inclusion
> in your library (ISBN 0-87171-618-6). Dr. Paul Vianco and
the AWS
> committee
> did an wonderful job of updating the handbook with new
material (lots of
> phase diagrams, references, etc.).
>
> Dave Hillman
> Rockwell Collins
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric Dawson <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 10/23/2001
02:14:04 AM
>
> Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
<[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> cc:
>
> Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
>
>
> Guy,
> I'm now curious. Why little old ladies? what were they
making with these
> wired nails? and why were you watching them?
> I hope I don't regret asking these questions, we know what
happened to the
> curious cat!
> On a more serious note, and to address the original
question,
> intermetallics
> will form between two metals when that is the stable
reaction. See
> Hanson's
> 'Constitution of Binary Alloys.' This is a very good
standard reference
> work, though probably out of print by now. It is known
that the Romans
> soldered lead piping for their plumbing systems
(plumbum-lead) and this
> would not have formed any intermetallic even though good
joints were made.
> In this case the tin and lead form a solid solution which
is the stable
> product of the two metals involved. Therefore, it is not
strictly correct
> to
> say that an intermetallic is a requirement for a good
soldered joint,
> rather, that the intermetallic is a product of a good
soldered joint
> between
> copper and tin or iron and tin.
> The flux is there to remove oxides and allow the solder
and the base metal
> to come into intimate contact and to aid heat transfer.
> Regards
> Eric Dawson
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Guy Ramsey [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 7:51 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
> >
> > It must be flux strength. I have watched little old
ladies solder wires
> to
> > nails. They were using zinc chloride. Destroyed the
solder iron tips but
> > did
> > what they wanted.
> >
> > We also made some custom tips for Pace solder pens. They
were stainless,
> > we
> > solder plated them too. They did not last as long nor
work as good as
> the
> > store bought ones but they were less expensive. We did
not measure the
> tip
> > temperature offset . . . oh yeah you were only asking
about soldering
> iron
> > .
> > . . ramble on.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bev
Christian
> > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 2:34 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, let me try saying this a different way:
> > > it "seems" that the canning industry has an easy time
putting tin on
> can
> > > steel. Why do I have trouble getting solder to stick
to a properly
> > > preheated 100% iron surface? Is it just a matter of
flux strength?
> Or
> > > something else?
> > >
> > > Bev Christian
> > > Research in Motion
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mel Parrish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: October 22, 2001 4:17 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
> > >
> > >
> > > Dr Bev,
> > > Not sure what your question is but for discussion.
Many of the common
> > > component lead frames contain significant amounts of
iron which
> > > is plated to
> > > enhance solderability, limit corrosion, etc.. Seems
that there should
> > be
> > > some metallurgists out there that can lead us to
understanding the
> > > solubility characteristics but my text books discuss
FeSn
> intermetalics
> > > although the rate is slower that that of tin gold or
tin copper.
> > > Also seems
> > > to me that the Nickel content is important to the
solder interface.
> > >
> > > Mel Parrish
> > > Soldering Technology International
> > > 102 Tribble Drive
> > > Madison, AL 35758
> > > 256 705 5530
> > > 256 705 5538 Fax
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bev
Christian
> > > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 2:01 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: [TN] tin on iron and solder on iron
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, here is a general question for all you met guys.
But I am not
> sure
> > I
> > > can explain it well enough to be understood!
> > >
> > > We all know that tin can be put on iron or we wouldn't
have "tin"
> cans.
> > I
> > > also know it is difficult to put solder on iron. So
my question
> > > is this: if
> > > one has a tinned iron surface and it is put into
molten solder
> > > the tin will
> > > be dissolved into the molten solder. I presume when
the piece of iron
> > is
> > > withdrawn from the pot, solder will be well adhered to
the iron. Is
> > this
> > > because there is a solderable tin/iron intermetallic?
What is the
> main
> > > difference between the tin can process and putting
solder directly on
> > iron
> > > that makes one easy to do and the other difficult?
This may be a
> "first
> > > grade" met question, but I don't know the answer.
Thanks.
> > >
> > > Bev Christian
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > -----
> > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC
using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]
with following text
> > in
> > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the
following message:
> SET
> > > Technet NOMAIL
> > > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line
Resources &
> Databases
> > >
> > > E-mail Archives
> > > Please visit IPC web site
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > > additional
> > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at
[log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> > > ext.5315
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > -----
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > -----
> > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC
using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]
with following text
> > in
> > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the
following message:
> SET
> > > Technet NOMAIL
> > > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line
Resources &
> Databases
> > >
> > > E-mail Archives
> > > Please visit IPC web site
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > > additional
> > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at
[log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> > > ext.5315
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > -----
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------------
> > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC
using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]
with following text
> > in
> > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the
following
> > > message: SET Technet NOMAIL
> > > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line
Resources &
> > > Databases > E-mail Archives
> > > Please visit IPC web site
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > > additional
> > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at
[log in to unmask] or
> > > 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---------------
> > >
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC
using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
following text
> in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the
following message: SET
> > Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line
Resources & Databases
> >
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask]
or 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
message: SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line
Resources & Databases >
> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask]
or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
message: SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line
Resources & Databases >
> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask]
or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
message: SET
Technet NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources
& Databases >
E-mail Archives
Please visit IPC web site
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
message: SET Technet NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources
& Databases > E-mail Archives
Please visit IPC web site
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
