Hi Werner,
There is a term I first heard uttered by a colleague more than a dozen years ago that seems apropos to much of what we have seen in recent times. That term is "green washing"
It is really no different than "white washing" with the same objective of trying to convince the observer that it is something other than what is truly is. Normally it is practiced to effect some financial, social or political gain.
So it goes...
Best,
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 2:48 pm
Subject: Re: [LF] Toxic-free computer--Defining "GREEN"
Hi Harvey,
I know Tom Graedel from our Bell Labs days.
When a book like "Industrial Ecology" calls Pb-free solder anti-environmental,
which of course has been proven many times over on multiple issues, what else
can the experts do in terms of education.
Al Gore reads the conclusions from a couple of one-sided papers, and becomes an
authority. The main stream media takes the most negative side of any issue and
runs with it.
How do you overcome this?
Werner
-----Original Message-----
From: Harvey Miller <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 4:09 pm
Subject: Re: [LF] Toxic-free computer--Defining "GREEN"
Bob Landman obviously knows the difference between absolute "environmentalism"
and its intelligent application. The latter is called
"Industrial Ecology", which happens to be the title of a book published
in 1995, by the two authors mentioned below. Lead-free solder was determined
to be anti-environmental in that 1995 book.
The challenge is one of education. To reflexively condemn all those dumb
politicians and environmentalists is counter-productive. Let's learn and teach
Industrial Ecology. That means cost-benefit analysis applied to the entire
system,
through the entire life cycle of "contaminant" substances and their
alternatives.
In general, we would find that PCBs (halogenated polyphenyls) are indeed bad
period, But DDT can be selectively applied, and so can Pb. (Don't put tetraethyl
lead in gasoline). We would re-establish that there are few absolutes in the
world and that most substance risks and benefits are dosage-dependent. People
have died from too much hydrogen dioxide.
I think, bottom line, that we are faced with a human problem. People like simple
answers in a scenario of action-reaction per Newton's 3d Law. With the advent
of the Industrial Revolution, we humans began polluting the earth
indiscriminately.
We didn't know any better. When we did learn better, the game looked like
Industry, the bad guys, vs. the "environmentalists". the good guys.
Well it is time to change that game. Memo to the human species: TIME TO GROW
UP.
The authors of "Industrial Ecology" and many subsequent books on the topic:
Braden R. Allenby (born 1950) is an American environmental scientist,
environmental attorney and Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering, and
of Law, at Arizona State University.
Thomas E.
Graedel is Clifton R. Musser Professor of Industrial Ecology, Professor
of Chemical Engineering, Professor of Geology and Geophysics, and
Director of the Center for Industrial Ecology at Yale University. He is
the author of Streamlined Life-Cycle Assessment and lead author or coauthor of a
number of other books.
________________________________
From: Bob Landman <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 10:43:16 AM
Subject: Re: [LF] Toxic-free computer
Denny,
Spot on indeed. My company will speak up. We are an environmentally
responsible company.
The RoHS banning of lead was idiotic and definitely NOT green.
We have to continue to use tin-lead solder until a PROVEN replacement exists.
One that has been proven by extended studies (studies that last far longer than
JESD-201 dictates). We don't yet have the years of experience with lead-free
materials but we know, based on what is being said here, it's not going to be
good news.
Lead is not perfect, but it is, thus far, the best antidote nature has provided
us with. Perhaps, besides being the best shield for radiation, we'll discover,
after much research and many billions of dollars being spent on replacements,
that lead remains, by far, the only substance to suppress tin whiskers.
Won't that be a interesting discovery? And then what will we do?
Landfills are still swelling with discarded electronics in the EU and the USA
(and I'm sure everywhere else on the planet).
Why didn't the EU first make compulsory, environmentally sound recycling?
If lead in landfills is such a problem, then perhaps finally we'll do what
should have been done in the first place? Keep the disposed of products OUT OF
THE LANDFILLS and properly recycle them (which by the way, saves energy).
Whiskers cause the failure of electronic products long before consumers and
industry are ready to replace them. There are a lot more electronics products
than cell phones. Using them as the metric for banning substances for the
entire industry is gross mistake as they have a short useful life span. As Joe
Fjelstad points out, saying 3 years is an adequate lifespan for durable goods is
nonsense.
While it can't be proved (yet) that some of Toyota's problems stem from the
adoption of lead-free manufacturing, we know that the automotive environment is
a severe mix of heat, cold, vibration and humidity.
What has been done is very bad for the environment.
Sincerely,
Bob Landman
H&L Instruments, LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dennis Fritz
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Toxic-free computer
WOW, YOU SURE KNOW HOW TO GET MY BLOOD BOILING ON A SNOWY INDIANA MORNING!!!!!!
I am absolutely SICK of the over use of the word "TOXIC". Conjures up horrible
images of all of us being poisoned by typing responses on our laptops.
By whose definition is something "toxic"? Used to be that we depended on our
governments to make that decision. In the US, we have had the "Toxic Substances
Control Act" with a methodology to report the nature of "toxic" hazards -
ingestion, breathing, skin contact, etc. Seemed pretty orderly - BUT IT DID
NOT OUTLAW CHEMICALS AT A PACE SATISFACTORY TO "GREEN" ORGANIZATIONS.
By politicizing "TOXIC" political candidates, particularly in the European
Union, began to be elected for their stance on "TOXIC". The result has been
the RoHS regulations where if there is any chance of harm - eleminate the
substance - our wonderful RoHS regulations banning lead - even if we now solder
40 C hottter and tear up untold rain forests to dig up more tin metal. A bit
more sensible has been REACh - where supposedly there is to be a cost/benefit
analysis before banning chemicals. The whole world is watching the EU unpile
from the hundreds of thousands of applications they have received for subsance
use under REACh.
Finally, I refer you to the the E-PEAT website trying to catagorize the
"green-ness" of electronic equipment -
http://www.epeat.net/
There, you will see the grading system drawn up for the "required" properties of
computers, monitors, and being extended to other electronic equipment. Then,
the percentage completion of "optional" factors give an OEM a Bronze, Silver, or
Gold rating. - Call it the Electronics Olympics since the winter games are
coming this weekend. While I do not personally agree with all the factors -
lead-free, halogen free, etc, I do agree with factors such as easy disassembly
for recycle, % recylced material used, etc.
Now, Greenpeace seems upset with the pace of E-PEAT, and has taken to grading
electronics on their own. Your posting is just their latest bow-shot. They had
a booth at the January Consumer Electronics Show to publicize the the same
thing.
This is not scientific - it is ENVIRONMENTAL DICTATORSHIP BY GREENPEACE AND
WHATEVER THEIR AGENDA HAPPENS TO BE. No companies dare speak up - they would
not be "GREEN".
How about some new slogans - techies?
Relaibale is GREEN - I don't need new electronics every 2 years
It is "TIN-RISK" solder - not Lead-Free.
"TIN-RISK" components give us tin whiskers.
"GREEN" is a halogen containing pigment!
Denny Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: Pedro Tort <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 10:04 am
Subject: [LF] Toxic-free computer
I doubt anyone can assure something is absolutely toxic-free, (remember the osts
to this forum long time ago about the dangerous Dihydrogen Monoxide?) ut the
Greenpeace gurus look to be sure enough to bless this Indian Greenware”.
<http://www.evertiq.com/news/16170> http://www.evertiq.com/news/16170
Pedro Tort
uality Manager
DigiProces, S.A.
olsonès, 87 - P.I. Pla de la Bruguera
.O. Box 127
-08211 CASTELLAR DEL VALLÈS
EL. +34 937 142 132
AX. +34 937 142 072
ww.digiproces.com
a Sistel Group Company
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