I thought that seemed familiar. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcus L. Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures
- Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
Correction:
It was Mike B. who recently mentioned Apple ;o)
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
failures
- Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:29:46 -0800
From: Marcus L. Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
To: (Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum) <[log in to unmask]>,
Patten,
Chuck <[log in to unmask]>
References: <[log in to unmask]>
A<[log in to unmask]>
<[log in to unmask]
com>
Best of luck to you in reaching S. Woz ;o)
As I recall, Bob has mentioned something about Apple's "fanning of the
flames" with their RoHS propaganda: Maybe this'd be a wake-up call for
someone?
Anyway, I think found him for you on Fundrace. Here's the link:
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=Wozniak
&fname=&search=Search
Did this before to target the CEO of one of the nation's largest grocers
for a presentation. It was a direct hit. If you can, send something on
company stationery...
Go get 'em --
--- Previous Message in This Thread ---
Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures -
Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
From: Patten, Chuck <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:43:39 AM
> I think that "the Woz's" comment about his car accelerating without
> being commanded to has more potential for a Tin Whisker problem that
the
> sticking pedals. He thinks that it is software but due to its
> intermittent nature it could easily be a whisker that has grown long
> enough to be waving about and making contact where it shouldn't. I
once
> saw a circuit assembly that when we opened it in the shop and looked
at
> it under bright lights, looked like a field of grain waving in the air
> currents. Anyone know how to get in touch with Mr. Wozniak?
>
>
> Chuck Patten, PMP
> Engineer Lead Project
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Werner
Engelmaier
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:41 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
failures
> - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>
>
> Hi Marcus,
> You should see two of my granddaughters, one was on the NC traveling
> baseball (yes, not softball) team and the other is a goalie/forward.
> Girls play rough too, and thank God for that.
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus L. Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, Feb 3, 2010 12:22 am
> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
failures
> - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>
>
> Thanks again for your valuable input, Dean.
>
> Yep, it's easy to get wrapped up tight in matters such as this: Just
ask
> folks around me at this end. In any event, life isn't safe; and boys
> play rough sometimes.
>
> And I truly thank God for that ;o)
>
> Prosit!
>
> --- Previous Message in This Thread ---
> Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures
-
> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
> From: Dean Stadem <[log in to unmask]>
> To: '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)' <[log in to unmask]>,
'Marcus
> L. Thompson' <[log in to unmask]>, 'James, Chris' <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:39:37 PM
>
>> It is a great community. The Technet and Leadfree forums are some of
> the
>> most amazing collections of minds that we will ever see, much more so
>> than any of us fully appreciates sometimes. The ability to throw
stuff
>
>> out there with little inhibition is what makes the ideas, thoughts,
> and
>> opinions flow.
>>> I realized last week that sometimes I get a little opinionated (OK,
> a
>> lot) on the RoHS and lead-in-solder subjects, and without realizing
it
> I
>> was overly critical. I certainly do not want that to happen; I value
> the
>> differing opinions, especially those of people like Chris James.
> Chris,
>> I owe you an apology. You had some really good points. I just don't
>> agree with how these things came about, and I cannot accept that they
>> are here to stay. But your thoughts and opinions certainly did make
me
>
>> re-evaluate and re-focus on the subject, and I wanted you to know
> that.
>>> R. Dean Stadem
>> Consulting Engineer
>> Analog Technologies Corp./Lumagine, Inc.
>> 11441 Rupp Drive
>> Burnsville, MN 55431
>> (952)894-9228
>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcus L.
> Thompson
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:04 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
> failures
>> - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>> "With tin whiskers, absence of evidence is seldom evidence of
> absence, > the remaining whiskers are usually evident."
>>> Fair enough. And, indeed, there is potentially more evidence of
> this > type of failure in spaceborne equipment where substantial
arcing
> can
>> occur.
>>> (I think Bob did a good job of encapsulating the rest in his latest
>> post.)
>>> What a great community --
>>>>> --- Previous Message in This Thread ---
>> Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
failures
> -
>>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>> From: Stadem, Richard D. <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:18:05 PM
>>>> That is not completely true. >> While the solitary whisker or
> whiskers on an electronic device that
>>> caused the short leading to overvoltage or non-conforming signal
>>> conditions may burn itself away in our atmosphere, several more
>> shorter
>>> non-conducting whiskers are usually left behind. With tin whiskers,
>>> absence of evidence is seldom evidence of absence, the remaining
>>> whiskers are usually evident.
>>> In space, a tin whisker acts the same as a filament in a light bulb,
>> due
>>> to the vacuum (lack of oxygen). In that situation a short is usually
>>> permanently fused between the adjacent non-common conductors, and
>> while
>>> it may break off during re-entry, enough evidence usually, but not
>>> always, is left behind to make a determination as to what happened.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcus L.
>> Thompson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 2:07 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
>> failures
>>> - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>>
>>> "...tin whiskers are a convenient thing liabilitywise for
>> manufacturers >> in any violent catastrophe involving same: They can
> simply break off
>> and
>>> fall away from the scene of the crime, all without a trace."
>>>
>>> Is this at all true?
>>>
>>> If so, who's to say what actually happened? Could human nature
>> possibly
>>> factor in to the statements and proclamations of a large industrial
>>> organization when confronted with an accusatory public eye?
>>>
>>> Tin whiskers are yet another failure vector for these systems; one
>> which
>>> is increasingly likely to meaningfully assert itself in devices >>
> manufactured using lead-free technologies with the passage of time.
>>> So, perhaps one could say it's all a matter of time...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Previous Message in This Thread ---
>>> Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
> failures
>> -
>>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>> From: John Burke <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:57:21 AM
>>>
>>>> They also stated publicly a few months ago that the problem was
> floor
>>>> mats......8-) >>>
>>>>
>>>> John Burke
>>>> (408) 515 4992
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of TIMOTHY
> MCGRADY
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:42 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
>>> failures -
>>>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>>>
>>>> Toyota stated publicly today that the cause was not electronic in
>>> nature.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:24 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
>>> failures -
>>>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>>>
>>>> the electronic controlled throttle also makes traction control far
>>> easier to
>>>> implement. Since loss of traction is far more common than stuck
>>> throttles,
>>>> they saved money and increased safety.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, including a "brake wins" algorithm would have saved
> lives.
>>> And
>>>> amortized over millions of cars, software is almost free.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if Toyota has nailed the problem with the friction
>>> solution.
>>>> But it
>>>> has been vetted by the NHTSA, and they seem to agree. I don't
doubt
>
>>> there
>>>> is also an electronic failure problem - electronics fail. But what
> I
>>> do
>>>> know is there is no indication so far of a tin whisker problem. It
>>> concerns
>>>> me that
>>>>
>>>> blaming any electronic failure on tin whiskers without any
> scientific
>>>> evidence is really no more valid than banning lead in solder with
no
>
>>>> scientific evidence. >>> There's enough data, crying wolf won't
get
> RoHS repealed. That's
>> more
>>>> likely to just make it harder to stop the next legislative mistake.
>>>>
>>>>
>
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