Thanks Brian, I wasn't as clear as I could have been.
When I said the amounts are too small to worry about,
I should have said...
" too small to worry about in comparison to the total amount used".
So yes: losing 0.1% of your market is too small to even measure.
Regards
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Old Electronics Can Harm the Environment
Mike
Lead is used for more than just poisoning people by projecting lumps of
it into their bodies:
[quote]
...Because of this general chemical resistance, considerable amounts of
lead are used in roofing, as coverings for electric cables placed in the
ground or underwater, and as linings for water pipes and conduits and
structures for the transportation and processing of corrosive
substances.
Lead has many other applications; the largest is in the manufacture of
storage batteries. It is used in ammunition (shot and bullets) and as a
constituent of various low-melting alloys, such as solder, type metal,
and pewter. In the construction of large buildings, lead sheets are used
in the walls to block the transmission of sound; and pads of lead and
asbestos are used in the foundations to absorb the vibrations caused by
street traffic and other sources. Because lead effectively absorbs
electromagnetic radiation of short wavelengths, it is used as a
protective shielding around nuclear reactors, particle accelerators,
X-ray equipment, and containers used for transporting and storing
radioactive materials...
[/quote]
(Enc. Brit. 2004)
What is not mentioned are the vast quantities still used in tetraethyl
lead as an anti-knock additive for motor fuels (60-70% of petrol sold
here is still leaded).
However, the "lead ... used in roofing, as coverings for electric cables
placed in the ground or underwater, and as linings for water pipes ..."
is obviously totally harmless. Maybe the well known catalytic reactions
of various tin compounds, from the tin alloyed with it, are necessary
before lead in solder becomes the obvious toxic compound that is killing
millions around the world. Didn't you know that everyone living within a
10 km radius of a landfill is dying from the results of depositing a
printed circuit or two therein? Maybe the REAL reason for the
legislation is because the lead from electronics has softened the
pea-sized organs they call brains of the politicians who have
promulgated these moronic regulations.
As for your other point, I have in the back of my mind that the quantity
of lead used in solder (can't remember whether all solder or just for
electronics) is <0.1% of the total quantity mined/recycled
(unsubstantiated figure). There are, in fact, more than one vested
interest group, institute or association for lead:
http://www.ilmc.org/english_text/t_about.html
http://www.ldaint.org/default.htm
http://www.leadinfo.com/
Brian
Mike Fenner wrote:
> Publish or perish exactly sums it up. Neat.
>
> Of course the lead industry has probably done all this already, but no
> one will believe them. In fact I used to wonder why there was not more
> visibility form their spokesmen, the lead equivalent of ITRI or
> somebody in this debate. In the end I concluded that they actually
> don't care whether the electronics industry uses lead or not, the
> amounts concerned are just too small to worry about, save ammunition
> etc for battles that really need to be fought and so on.
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Creswick, Steven
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:43 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [LF] Old Electronics Can Harm the Environment
>
>
> Ah! Okay!
>
> It must be the early hour that is fogging my synapses.
>
> Heaven forbid that an estemed educator, such as a college professor,
> would confuse a morally correct plan of action with a 'grey' one that
> provides money in ones own pocket.
>
> Back to the old "publish or perish", I guess.
>
> Mike, thanks for the smack up against the side of the noggen. I
> needed that.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Fenner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:23 AM
> To: '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)'; Creswick, Steven
> Subject: RE: [LF] Old Electronics Can Harm the Environment
>
>
> Steve, those are "dangerous thoughts".
> In future please try not confuse things with logic.
>
> What is being sought here is not answers but research grants to ensure
> maintenance of the eco-industry. Actually measuring the real world now
> will cut off a promising income stream where tests can be conducted,
> findings published, conferences attended, more research initiated,
> etc.. Correlating all that to the real world is an entirely separate
> project, which will also then have to be debated and discussed and
> verified and is not till much later - if at all.
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Creswick, Steven
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:15 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [LF] Old Electronics Can Harm the Environment
>
>
> David,
>
> It is amazing how we can take something and bend and twist it to
> support our own agenda, then pass it as off something akin to have
> 'come down from the mount'? (Notice that I did not specifically slam
> the news media, or lawyers .... guilty that they are)
>
> Yes, but isn't the last sentence just as intriguing? Will the real
> results get reported if they do NOT show leaching?
>
> .... or will they grind the pc up, stick it in a barrel full of
> acid, roll it for a week to simulate the ride in the garbage truck,
> then pour the witches brew into the landfill and claim environmental
> disaster?
>
> Why can't the leachate from a 'typical' landfill be checked for heavy
> metals? Make that a dozen 'typical' landfills. Don't we have enough
> of them around the world to use as samples??
>
> The logic of this endeavor evades me.
>
> Steve Creswick - Gentex Corp
> Zeeland, MI - USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Suraski [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:53 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [LF] Old Electronics Can Harm the Environment
>
>
> Here's another one of these articles that I just came across on
> www.theledger.com. I hope you'll appreciate the hilarity/hyperbole of
> the first line as much as I did. I am only forwarding this, not
> endorsing it!
>
> Regards,
>
> David Suraski
> AIM
> +1-401-463-5605 ext. 5210
> www.aimsolder.com
>
>
> Old Electronics Can Harm the Environment
> By Tom Palmer
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> Speed kills. I'm not talking about drugs or cars; I'm talking about
> electronics.
>
> All of these gadgets we buy and use to do things faster are a
> potential environmental liability.
>
> At least they are when we get tired of them, or they quit working, and
> we buy a newer one and throw the old one away.
>
> According to a recent news release from the University of Florida,
> experts estimate that 60 million personal computers will become
> obsolete by 2005.
>
> That doesn't include all of the old cell phones and VCRs, handheld
> computer gadgets and miscellaneous electronic jetsam-inwaiting.
>
> How bad is it, you might ask.
>
> Pretty bad, according to a draft study completed by recently by
> University of Florida researchers.
>
> The study found these devices release enough lead to be classified as
> hazardous waste under federal environmental regulations.
>
> The source of lead, which can cause nervous system damage and is fatal
> in high enough doses, is the solder used to connect the circuits.
>
> The researchers also measured the release of other toxic metals --
> mercury, arsenic, cadmium, barium, silver, selenium and chromium --
> that are components in electronic devices, but reportedly found no
> problems.
>
> Now researchers will be continuing the experiment to find out what
> happens in a real landfill.
>
> The experiment will occur in a section of Polk County's North Central
> Landfill near Lakeland in a two-year research project sponsored by
> Polk County and the Florida Center for Solid and Hazardous Waste
> Management, a research center based at the university's College of
> Engineering.
>
> It will be interesting to see what they find.
>
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