OK, my HCH is < 3 y.o. and I agree. The electronics do cause more 
battery failures than the batteries themselves, but have had no problem 
with the car sitting in full sunlight when it is 43°C+ outside in the 
shade. In any case, with 8 year full free-replacement guarantee on 
battery/electronics/electrical drive train, who cares? I'll be dead 
before the car! I find it's a great little car if you don't use it just 
locally: it's better to give it its head on long legs along highways, 
unlike the Prius. My impressions at: http://www.cypenv.info/hybrid/index.htm

Brian

Steven Creswick wrote:
> Brian,
> 
> With respect to Honda's and Toyotas claim for no NiMH battery replacement due to 'electrical failure in the battery itself' .... IMHO - Not true in the broader sense.  Yes, maybe the root cause of the battery failure was due to charging/discharging circuit problems [they seem to be constantly 'adjusting' the charging algorithm as more service life info is gathered], but the batteries do indeed fail!  However, the failure rate IS quite low
> 
> The good news is that generally very few of them do indeed fail.  Some folks in the hotter climates suffer more losses than those of us in the cooler climates.  Cooking in the 100F+ sun of Phoenix tends to degrade the NiMH rather quickly.  I don't experience that problem in colder west-Michigan, even with the vehicle sitting for weeks at a time due to impassible snow depth.
> 
> At 150K+ miles, with a overall lifetime mileage of just over 50 mpg on our 03 Honda Civic Hybrid, even though it is too light to plow through the snow, it has been an excellent vehicle with only the failure of the door pillar dome light switch.  Routine oil and tires is all it takes!  With the use of regenerative braking, I still have just over 50% of the original front brake pads left [and they were not all that generous in thickness in the first place!].  Am anticipating changing the front pads at around 200K miles.  Have never lasted anywhere near that long on my other vehicles!!!
> 
> The Honda civic has NiMH batteries [size of normal D-cells] arranged in 'sticks' [series], with many 'sticks' in parallel to yield a net ~147V [I believe].  All this is placed in a vertical arrangement behind the rear passenger seat.  Disadvantage is that the rear seats do not fold down [as in most other 4 dr sedans] and the trunk is a bit smallish.
> 
> Steve C
> 
> 
> d) Lifetime of Li-ion (and variants)? Both Honda and Toyota with 10-y 
> experience of NiMH claim they have never had to change a battery because 
> of electrical failure due to the battery itself (speculation by me: 
> perhaps electronic failures in charging/discharging circuits????). We 
> have all had Li-ion failures in phones, laptops etc, within 2-3 years, 
> granted with unsophisticated charging/discharging circuitry. Will they 
> (more expensive) last 10 years in mobile conditions?
> e) Li-ion loses its capacity more rapidly below -20°C (than NiMH) 
> although it does not harm the battery: how will an EV perform in a 
> Canadian-style winter with only 10-20% capacity available?
> 
> Brian
> 
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