Dean - thank you for your words; I never felt I was owed an apology by
anyone but I'll accept it anyway :)
C
-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dean Stadem
Sent: 03 February 2010 03:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures
- Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
It is a great community. The Technet and Leadfree forums are some of the
most amazing collections of minds that we will ever see, much more so
than any of us fully appreciates sometimes. The ability to throw stuff
out there with little inhibition is what makes the ideas, thoughts, and
opinions flow.
I realized last week that sometimes I get a little opinionated (OK, a
lot) on the RoHS and lead-in-solder subjects, and without realizing it I
was overly critical. I certainly do not want that to happen; I value the
differing opinions, especially those of people like Chris James. Chris,
I owe you an apology. You had some really good points. I just don't
agree with how these things came about, and I cannot accept that they
are here to stay. But your thoughts and opinions certainly did make me
re-evaluate and re-focus on the subject, and I wanted you to know that.
R. Dean Stadem
Consulting Engineer
Analog Technologies Corp./Lumagine, Inc.
11441 Rupp Drive
Burnsville, MN 55431
(952)894-9228
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcus L. Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures
- Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
"With tin whiskers, absence of evidence is seldom evidence of absence,
the remaining whiskers are usually evident."
Fair enough. And, indeed, there is potentially more evidence of this
type of failure in spaceborne equipment where substantial arcing can
occur.
(I think Bob did a good job of encapsulating the rest in his latest
post.)
What a great community --
--- Previous Message in This Thread ---
Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures -
Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
From: Stadem, Richard D. <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:18:05 PM
> That is not completely true.
> While the solitary whisker or whiskers on an electronic device that
> caused the short leading to overvoltage or non-conforming signal
> conditions may burn itself away in our atmosphere, several more
shorter
> non-conducting whiskers are usually left behind. With tin whiskers,
> absence of evidence is seldom evidence of absence, the remaining
> whiskers are usually evident.
> In space, a tin whisker acts the same as a filament in a light bulb,
due
> to the vacuum (lack of oxygen). In that situation a short is usually
> permanently fused between the adjacent non-common conductors, and
while
> it may break off during re-entry, enough evidence usually, but not
> always, is left behind to make a determination as to what happened.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcus L.
Thompson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 2:07 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
failures
> - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>
> "...tin whiskers are a convenient thing liabilitywise for
manufacturers
> in any violent catastrophe involving same: They can simply break off
and
>
> fall away from the scene of the crime, all without a trace."
>
> Is this at all true?
>
> If so, who's to say what actually happened? Could human nature
possibly
>
> factor in to the statements and proclamations of a large industrial
> organization when confronted with an accusatory public eye?
>
> Tin whiskers are yet another failure vector for these systems; one
which
>
> is increasingly likely to meaningfully assert itself in devices
> manufactured using lead-free technologies with the passage of time.
>
> So, perhaps one could say it's all a matter of time...
>
>
>
> --- Previous Message in This Thread ---
> Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures
-
>
> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
> From: John Burke <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:57:21 AM
>
>> They also stated publicly a few months ago that the problem was floor
>> mats......8-)
>>
>>
>> John Burke
>> (408) 515 4992
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of TIMOTHY MCGRADY
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:42 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
> failures -
>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>
>> Toyota stated publicly today that the cause was not electronic in
> nature.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:24 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
> failures -
>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>
>> the electronic controlled throttle also makes traction control far
> easier to
>> implement. Since loss of traction is far more common than stuck
> throttles,
>> they saved money and increased safety.
>>
>> Of course, including a "brake wins" algorithm would have saved lives.
> And
>> amortized over millions of cars, software is almost free.
>>
>> I don't know if Toyota has nailed the problem with the friction
> solution.
>> But it
>> has been vetted by the NHTSA, and they seem to agree. I don't doubt
> there
>> is also an electronic failure problem - electronics fail. But what I
> do
>> know is there is no indication so far of a tin whisker problem. It
> concerns
>> me that
>>
>> blaming any electronic failure on tin whiskers without any scientific
>> evidence is really no more valid than banning lead in solder with no
>> scientific evidence.
>> There's enough data, crying wolf won't get RoHS repealed. That's
more
>> likely to just make it harder to stop the next legislative mistake.
>>
>>
>
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