Hi Brian. 

In addition to better hybrids,  I would also submit that folks might use public transportation and re-learn how to walk and ride bikes again. (or do it more) According to a recent study Europeans on average walk 237 miles (~ 400KM) and cycle 116 miles per year; U.S. residents walk 87 miles (~145KM)  and bike 24 miles. Many car trips are easily walked and most are driven alone.   

http://thedailynewsonline.com/articles/2010/02/09/lifestyles/4966876.txt

Best, 
Joe


However, there is one thing I shall categorically state: the future of mankind, in the long term, must rest on recycling as many molecules and atoms as we can. All our physical resources are limited in quantity and everything that is thrown away and becomes irrecoverable is a resource lost to our children and grandchildren. I say this irrespective of cost: today's valueless PE or PP insulation may be tomorrow's fuel that drives us to work in our 8th generation hybrid car! 

 

 


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 7:46 am
Subject: [LF] NTC: Toxic computers (cont)


[rant] 
I've been following the debate here and have deliberately not joined in, up to now, because it is not a single subject, but half-a-dozen completely independent ones, all mixed up, higgledy-piggledy. It is therefore impossible to follow a logical sequence of arguments. (In any case, although the LF forum may have been the correct place to start, this should really have gone to the EnviroNet board!) 
 
Some of the newer members may not know me so please forgive me if I briefly state that I have been working with various high-level government agencies and the United Nations Environment Programme for nigh on 3 decades, initially on ozone depletion and later climate change, both atmospheric science-based. Notwithstanding, my academic background started 60-odd years ago in electronics. 
 
In my environmental specialities, I doubt whether there are any serious atmospheric scientists who would deny today that ozone depletion, due mainly to man-made organic halogenated compounds, is fact, pure and simple. This was not always the case; when the Montreal Protocol was signed in September 1987, the science was certainly shaky, although there was considerable circumstantial evidence in its favour. Just one year later, the scientific proof was empirically demonstrated, combined with sound explanations why the so-called "ozone-hole" was found where CFCs etc. were not emitted. Scepticism is a healthy reaction to such explanations and even proof, and it took the best part of 10 years before 99% of the scientific community realised that anthropogenic ozone-depletion was for real. 
 
Moving to climate change, the science is already advanced and is improving daily. We are now at the stage where few atmospheric scientists deny the reality that humans are changing the atmosphere (there is plenty of solid proof, even confirming Arrhenius' hypothesis and calculations that CO2 emissions would cause climate change, well over 100 years ago). There may still be some doubt in the minds of the few more recalcitrant persons as to the respective proportions due to man-made and natural phenomena, but that is not the crux of the matter.  The science is now robust, even with the uncertainties of some of the details. 
 
Coming back to the thread, I'm still amazed at the difference in attitude on the two sides of the Atlantic, not at the facts of life, but at the cynicism -- which is NOT the same as scepticism -- expressed on environmental matters on the west side. Even from the relative intelligentsia of some of the members of this forum, I shudder at some of the statements. I'm not sure whether this is due to ignorance or deliberate denial, in some cases. Don't get me wrong, some from the east side of that sea are also manifestly mistaken, as well. 
 
I think that some of this may be due to envirofatigue: nagging the same thing over and over again is a terrible waste of time and energy and the popular media must take a whole lot of blame for this. In particular, I decry the extreme scenarios (in both senses) that the tabloids so love to propagate (even those English ones that pretend to be serious, like the Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail) to try and convince everyone that it is baloney. These rags will change their tune, like the Sun, if a Conservative government gets in later this year. 
 
I won't go into details because there have been so many right and so many wrong things, at least in my opinion, scattered around this subject. However, there is one thing I shall categorically state: the future of mankind, in the long term, must rest on recycling as many molecules and atoms as we can. All our physical resources are limited in quantity and everything that is thrown away and becomes irrecoverable is a resource lost to our children and grandchildren. I say this irrespective of cost: today's valueless PE or PP insulation may be tomorrow's fuel that drives us to work in our 8th generation hybrid car! 
 
I therefore appeal for more thought and reflection on where we are really heading, rather than gut-feeling and especially total or partial denial. 
 
Sorry to take this to a slightly more philosophical level than expressed in some of the other post. Let battle now be enjoined! 
[/rant] 
 
Brian 
 
 
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