Thanks, Ron.
I understand what you mean. I've talked to many vendors and taken many
tours.
What I should have asked was,
"How should a designer know WHEN to pick up the phone?"
What would trigger me to think that maybe my default material choice is not
appropriate?
Thinking about it, I realize that's not easy to answer,
and if I called my vendor and said "Is /126 good enough for me?"
he would have to know a lot of details about the application to offer any
advice, right?
(my interest was a worse thermal cycling environment than I'm accustomed to)
but thanks, and thanks to EVERYONE who chimed in on this.
Jack
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Nowak, Ronald <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Jeff, you are "spot on!" ...Talking with your PCB fabricator is always a
> knowledge gaining experience. After working in design and applications for
> 30 years and now working in a PCB manufacturing team....(LM captive house
> in Owego, NY), the manufacturing knowledge with most fabricators is second
> to none. IPC class 3 as a state of mind with work in space, undersea, and
> in the air with reliability being the long pole is an everyday event here.
> Sorry for the ad folks...A GOOD fab will tell you what they can and CANNOT
> build. High end end materials like PTFE often require fusion bonding at a
> higher temperature which may or may not be one of your PCB vendor
> capabilities.
> Pick up the phone, call your vendor and take a tour..
> LLAP
>
> Ron Nowak
> Electronic Packaging Applications
> Lockheed Martin MST
> 1801 State Route 17C MD 0409
> Owego, NY 13827-3998
> phone: 607-751-2089
> cell: 607-427-0870
> ---Original Message-----
> From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dean
> Stadem
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 7:39 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [DC] Question of the Week - Laminates and
> Temperature
>
> I think that is a very good approach.
> Work with the fabricators of PWBs in the market or industry you are
> intending to design/specify/build for. They can steer you in the right
> direction, are willing to share their knowledge of those applications and
> provide tips, etc., and are usually very willing to help a potential new
> customer. The worst that can happen is that you walk away with some new
> contacts and friends.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Jenkins, Jeffrey A @ CSG - LINKABIT
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 6:28 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC] Question of the Week - Laminates and Temperature
>
> Jack,
>
> For what it's worth, here is how I tackle the situation for when I need
> something whose performance is beyond the IPC-4101 slash sheets. The /126
> is usually a starting place for me(and sometime /129), but I find the slash
> sheets limited when I have specific needs when it comes to RF performance
> and/or specialized processing (seq-lam, layer count, laser, etc).
>
> So I usually start with this as baseline, then add on my additional
> processing requirements and submit those to your fav material vendors
> (Isola, Rogers, Park-Elec, etc) and get their feedback. Then I take that
> and run it by my fab houses (I like at least 2) because they usually are
> building boards for others with similar end-uses environments. And they
> are in the know of what is good for processing, provides good yields for
> both the fab and assy house with relation to the product type you're
> making, and are usually willing to share this information (though not about
> specific customers and such).
>
> When I make a final material selection, I usually spec it as "Vendor
> Material XXX IAW IPC-4101/126" with the IPC-4101 modifiers following it.
> For me, repeatability is a requirement on most designs so I tend to lock it
> down once the final stack-up is realized. I seldom do many boards where
> any material in the IPC-4101/126 alone would be acceptable anymore.
>
> In the case you presented, you know the end use (automotive from the
> IPC-D-279 is a good starting point). So combine those requirements with
> any additional one you may need, then go to talk with the vendors.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -Jeffrey
>
> Jeffrey A. Jenkins CID+,CIT
> Senior PCB Staff Designer || L-3 Linkabit || Ph: 858-552-9832 ||
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
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