Perhaps, but, not necessarily true,
From my understand is PCBL came from PCBStandards, which had a free
tool, only it was an XL spreadsheet, which evolved in to LP Viewer.
Brent
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Denis Lefebvre
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:25 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
One point that everyone seems to be missing is that we would not have
the LP calculator from PCBLibraries if it had been up to IPC to go it
alone. The IPC simply does not have the resources to develop that kind
of a software tool to accompany a new spec. I think we should be
grateful that the folks at PCBLibraries were willing to champion the
effort for developing a comprhensive calculator tool. And if they make a
few bucks from sales of the advanced feature product, they deserve it.
I, personally, see no problem in the IPC forming alliances with outside
organizations to enhance their offering to us - the users of the
specifications.
just my 2 cents.
-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Burcham [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 7:08 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
My understanding of the original rant is using the purchase of an IPC
Standard as a vehicle for the promotion of other products for SALE.
Our lives are totally infiltrated with advertising.
Didn't you originally subscribe to cable TV because they promoted it as
COMMERCIAL FREE? And what do you see now? 50% commercials.
Spend your money on a magazine or newspaper and what are you paying for?
Commercials!
Drive the highways and byways and what are you looking at? Billboards!
Turn on your radio and what do you hear? Commercials!
Soon the birds will be singing commercials.
Why not the IPC?
Everything is a vehicle for commercials....boo hiss...turn it
off...please!
Barbara
Barbara J. Burcham, C.I.D.
Fairfield Industries, Inc
281-275-7687
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Chris Ball
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 8:44 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
Nick- I've learned whole new ECAD systems quicker than the time it took
to type that original rant. It's been my spare time-filler for a while
(and I still used some bad grammar). My intention was not to imply that
PCB Libraries is selling a poor-quality tool disguised as an IPC
standard.
Sorry if that's how you took it.
I've only used the portion of the PCBLibraries tool purchased with
IPC-7351. Regarding the pending IPC-2152 spec. and Thermalman software,
I've got their freeware calculator. But for now, the calculator results
don't match any formally released specification or standard.
So far no one has supplied an example of another standards org. doing
what IPC is doing with these companies. I really don't know one way the
other and would like to hear if it's happening elsewhere. Is this a
general trend or an IPC thing?
-Chris
"Nick Ban (PCBL)"
<[log in to unmask]> To:
[log in to unmask]
Sent by: DesignerCouncil cc:
<[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re:
[DC] Propaganda Rant
05/10/2005 01:49 PM
Please respond to Nick
In the time it took to type the original rant, one person - somewhere in
the world - built half a dozen high-quality parts right into their CAD
tool ...from scratch.
For those whose heads spin at this rate and prefer the traditional way
of design, a free (and limited) version of the LP Calculator is still on
track for release this summer. This version will not be as powerful as
the current LP Calculator, but still more powerful than the SM-782.
For those wondering, the Pantheon outputs are now available; Protel and
Expedition coming right up.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ed
Murphy
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:47 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
Just a question...
Have you guys used this program? Or are we just be philosophical about
the whole topic and approach of sales.... if so then continue on
ranting... you have earned the right.. if not... try it... it saves me
a &*@#-load of time and is worth the money.... even in US dollars!!!
Just my opinion....
Ed Murphy CID
The great white north chapter.... Ottawa eh!
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Brooks,Bill
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 12:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
Just a cautious word of advice... Please, before you go accusing the
Executive Board... be informed about the IPC and who runs it and just
how the Designers Council fits into the overall organization.
http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=2.1#
Most of us have opinions about the organization and those working in its
interests and MOST of us don't really know much about them or it at all.
I urge you to check into it before casting dispersions about the folks I
know are very giving and helpful and aren't making a penny off their
contributions. Not to say that there aren't some who aren't so engaged
and deserve the criticism... be that as it may...
Not everyone is a mercenary or 'in it for the money'.... besides,
designers aren't walking around with large bags of money to spend...
especially on specs.
Best regards,
Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer, C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
_______________________________________
Member of the San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council
Communications Officer, Web Manager http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/
http://pcbwizards.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Alcorn, Brent [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 8:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
Hi Chris,
Well put, and I too disagree with their approach.
Brent
Sr. P.C. Designer
Analogic Corporation
PS. Makes me wonder if I really want to be certified by this entity??
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Chris Ball
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [DC] Propaganda Rant
Since it's been quiet lately....
<RANT>
When I was a kid growing up in the USA, the USSR was the bad guy. The
thing I remember most (besides Kruschev with a hole in his shoe) was
that their government was always spewing complete bull$h!t to their
people. And the government's version was the only version the media
dispersed. That wasn't really the worst aspect of their regime, but
that's what I remember most vividly.
It seems to me that America is sliding down the same path these days.
You look the camera in the eye and spew. Your story doesn't even have to
be very plausible. This technique seems to be working for our current
regime and for several ex-CEO's. I concede that our current leaders are
not the first to employ the tactic (I would argue that the gravity of
the subject matter is vastly different, but that's a whole 'nuther
thing).
And now it seems to propagating into the general population.
IPC-7351 is different than any IPC spec has ever been. If you purchase
it, you receive a piece of software from an outside company as part of
your purchase. If you use this software, you find that more goodies are
available to you from the authors for a price. I'm not saying whether
that's a good thing or a bad thing, just that it's true.
Now it sounds as though the next highly anticipated spec, IPC-2152, will
be similar in that it will be linked with an outside company's
product(s).
When posts on this forum appeared questioning the way things were being
done, in both cases, responses quickly appeared informing us that these
guys put up a lot of their own money and time just to get this done.
These postings implied that people out there are making great personal
sacrifices to improve things for us designers, with little or no thought
of personal gain. No backroom deals or insider trading, nothing sneaky
here.
The point being obscured by this propaganda is that IPC specifications
are now endorsing and bundling specific commercial products. It appears
to be a trend.
Is this acceptable to the general population of specification consumers,
or does it seem a little shady? Are there any other examples of
standards organizations integrating a limited subset of a commercial
software application (with hooks to other for-purchase features) into
their published specifications?
-Chris (el-CID)
P.S.
If I decided to open a restaurant, I'd put a lot of my own time and
money into it. I'd hope my customers really loved the food, left happy,
and came back often; that dining at my establishment affected their
lives in a positive way. I'd care deeply about people who eat, and
honestly have their best interests at heart.
But it would all be driven by self-interest. I wouldn't do it if I
didn't think I could at least make a living at it. I don't think anyone
would. I wouldn't appreciate being represented as some sort of culinary
martyr in the food forums.
And if I was in cahoots with the food critics and travel guides, and on
the premier gourmet publication's board of directors, that'd be great
for me.
</RANT>
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