Gentlemen,
I would like to make a few brief comments. I certainly agree that the DC
certification program cannot test whether a designer can apply a base of
fundamental knowledge. It was never intended to do so. With so many CAD tools out
there, it would be impossible to provide adequate testing within a tool set
that an individual designer is comfortable. Furthermore, it is not important to
see how well he manipulates the "pencil" but how much knowledge based
experience he brings to the task.
The mark of a good designer is not how fast he can design or how well he can
manipulate a tool. The true mark is the depth of his manufacturing,
assembly, test, etc, knowledge and how he applies it to a design. I've had many a
design manager indicate that he would much rather have a designer with an
indepth knowledge than one that only knows how to press buttons. "The buttons can
easily be taught". Real life experience seperates the men from the boys.
That said, the volunteers that developed the CID program focused on the body
of knowledge. The program that was developed is actually an extensive long
term training experience. But before any program can be successful, one must
flatten the playing field. A designer that has been designing for 18 years,
double sided power supplies, considers himself a senior designer. However a
designer that has been designing high technology multilayers boards, controlled
impedance, smt, etc, for the same 18 years also considers himself a senior
designer. Unfortunately, the double sided board designer would have a hard time
competing in our present world should he be faced with finding a new job.
Therefore, the volunteer creators of the certification program focused on
providing a long term education program that enhances the current knowledge
base as well as attracts new blood into our profession. It is unfortunate that
the masses tend to want to judge the program only at the entry level. An entry
level that focuses on understanding recognized vocabulary, basic processes
and practices. The real meat of the program actually appears at the advanced
levels which include the focus modules. This is where one must apply the
inter-relationships within their foundation of knowledge to solve real time
problems. Believe me when I say that if someone has memorized the words, he would
not be equiped to answer real problem solving issues as described at the
advanced levels.
Look out the window and count how many new designers have entered our
profession. The profession certainly is not on the high profile list of professions
to get into. Those already in the profession know the gratification one gets
when completing the next challenge. It is our duty to do whatever needs to
be done to promote and preserve our profession. Remember, there are plenty of
wannabes sitting on the other side of the big pond just waiting to take our
jobs away. I have found that those designers that have chosen not to
participate in the promotion of their profession are actually afraid of failure in the
eyes of their peers. Granted, they may be very experienced and way beyond
career building, but we need them and their expertise to preserve this
profession for the generations that follow.
Regards,
Gary Ferrari
FTS
860-350-9300
= = = Original message = = =
I support those that want to get the certification. I support the IPC
Designers council, both with my money and my time. I agree that
certification is a "good thing".
But...
What I disagree with is that the current certification tests only
memorization of standards, and has no relationship to how well the designer
actually _does_ the job. Comparing this to the PE certification is a
disservice to both the PE and the CID.
The PE tests both the knowledge AND the _practice_ of engineering, and is a
full test of the engineer's ability to _do_ their job. The CID tests the
designer's ability to use the standards, but does not test most other
requirements. It does not test electronic and mechanical engineering
skills, nor does it test the ability to actually _design_ a board.
The PE is a legal certification. You can not lead on certain projects, or
obtain professional bonding or insurance, without it. CID is not that
stringent, nor does it afford the holder legal rights and responsibilities.
--
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, PCB Design Group
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
Phone: 503-627-5272 Fax: 503-627-5587
http://www.tektronix.com http://www.pcb-designer.com
It's my opinion, not Tektronix'
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Brooks,Bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 09:02
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] C.I.D.Certification Exam
I guess that's my queue to jump in...
As long as I can remember, a designer's resume was the only document that
represented his/her level of expertise. Now, I have been doing this a long
time, since 1973, so I have seen a number of r~sum~'s come across my desk
for evaluation and recommendation. I have watched people with fine r~sum~'s
get hired and fired in the matter of a few weeks because the interview or
resume' did not reveal a deep lack of knowledge or work ethic in an
individual that only showed up in the work environment. I watched people
actually lie to the interviewer and we only really found out that they were
lying after they had been there for awhile fumbling or making inexperienced
mistakes. So, we started testing applicants. We never had a problem after
that. The potential candidates were asked to perform what they said they
could perform, and if they wanted the job they showed us what they could do.
The C.I.D. certificate is not given out for money, or bribery, or some sort
of subterfuge, but is ...earned... by showing the designer community that
you know what you know.
The hiring mangers know this too now, and are using the CID as a hiring
criteria in many cases. The CID does mean something, and it has earned the
respect of the companies that have paid for the designers they have to take
the test and get the certification too. The designers who were brave enough
to step up and be tested have earned the right to wear their CID mark with
real pride. You will notice they have it following their signatures and on
their business cards.
I equate this certification with the P.E. certificate that is awarded
Professional Engineers. They go through a similar process to get their
certification and it is recognized as an indication of their level of
knowledge in engineering.
The C.I.D. is the ONLY certificate a PCB designer can get that sets them
apart from the 'Wannabee' designers, drafters, and techs... and it is
respected by companies and designers in the industry who know what it takes
to pass the exam. That is why it is a highly prized and respected
certificate and the Designers Council, made up of PCB designers and
Engineers, is committed to always keep it that way.
That does not mean that anyone who does not have the certificate is not
qualified... They just have not been tested and certified. Certainly if they
were certified there would be no question as to their knowledge level. And
once tested they can compare that level with others who were brave enough to
have stepped forward and put their reputation on the line by testing and
certification.
The successful designers studied hard and even though the information may
seem to be simple and 'common knowledge' to many, you would be surprised how
many had difficulty with simple questions... The ones who did not pass
either did not study or just had no knowledge of the subject. After going
back and studying, they usually passed the second time they tested.
When I took the exam I was so keyed up and wanted to make sure I had it all
down before the exam, that there was a great deal of concern in my demeanor
and stress over the exam. I was not alone in this feeling, there were
designers who would not test at all who walked out because they realized
they were not ready for the test... there were those who cried tears over
the stress of getting tested, its not a 'walk in the park'. If I remember
correctly I missed 6 out of the 104 questions... so don't discount the
validity of the test or its difficulty, but realize that you can pass it
with study and hard work. It is truly a measure of the designers experience
level and their knowledge level and can be a very good thing to have on your
resume'.
Best regards,
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
http://pcbwizards.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Lum Wee Mei [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 5:50 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] C.I.D.Certification Exam
Steve,
I can fully understand your feeling. When I show my colleagues both the
Basic and Advanced IPC Designer Guides, they are completely stumped by
the "whirlpool" of information and the numbers of standards that they
have to know and have great reserve in taking the exam up to today. At
least you make the first step to take it.
In my opinion, awarded with the C.I.D certificate is nothing great. What
great and of utmost importance is how well we can correlate and use the
learned knowledge into your work for better improvement and
self-devlopment. In this world, not all of us are born "examination
smart". On the other hand, it is sad to observe that experience cannot
be quantified without a certificate.
Regards,
Wee Mei
Steve Smith wrote:
>The test questions on the disk are a fair representation of the questions
on the test.
>How hard is it? I have seen designers with 15 years of experience fail and
rookies
>with virtually no board experience pass, so it really depends on how well
you know
>the material and how well you test.
>
>My regards,
>Steve Smith, C.I.D.
>Product Engineer
>
>Staco Energy Products Co.
>301 Gaddis Boulevard.
>Dayton, OH 45403
>Telephone: (937) 253-1191 Ext. 158
>Fax: (937) 253-1723
>E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>Web Site: www.stacoenergy.com
>& www.stacopower.com
>
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
>>Behalf Of alice
>>zhang
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:04 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [DC] C.I.D.Certification Exam
>>
>>
>>I just signed in C.I.D. Certification Exam. I really want to
>>know how the exam is. Is it hard to pass? What kind of
>>questions are they?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
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>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------------------
>>Alice
>>
>>
>>
>
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