Bill,
Consider presenting both diff pairs AND cross talk together.
For diff pairs, route them parallel for as much length as possible.
For cross talk, reduce the parallel length as much as possible.
To some PCB Designers, this may seem to be a contradiction (can't the
engineer make up his mind?). In reality, there's a method to the
madness (electrons are like that you know).
Explaining them both at the same time may benefit all in attendance.
Thank you,
Kevin L. Seaman
OrCAD CIS Library Liaison
Allegro PCB Library Liaison
Sr. Staff PCB Layout Engineer
Broadcom Corp. Irvine, CA
(949)926-5656 (ext. 65656)
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:53 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Impedance/ Diff pairs/ layer stack up calculator?
Thanks George... that was informative.
I'd like to get Polar to come do a presentation on diff pairs some time...
I think it would make a good DC chapter meeting.
Good input from all... I have been buried lately and have not had time to
respond... thanks again.
Best regards,
Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer, C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
Datron World Communications, Inc.
_______________________________________
San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council
Communications Officer, Web Manager
http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/
http://pcbwizards.com
-----Original Message-----
From: George Patrick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Impedance/ Diff pairs/ layer stack up calculator?
An interesting PDF of a presentation given by PJ Kleffner of Polar at
one of our meetings last summer is at
http://dcchapters.ipc.org/pnw/presentations/20050713_polar.pdf. I
thought the displays and some of the things you could do with them were
very well done.
Unfortunately, our preferred vendors use Apsim, so we are supposed to
use it, too. It is a real bear to use and so it usually doesn't GET
used and we pester the vendor AE to give us the preferred stacks :)
--
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, Engineering Design Services
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
* 503-627-5272 (voice) * 503-627-5587 (fax)
http://www.tektronix.com http://www.pcb-designer.com
"Off-Grid and Proud of it!"
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andy
Kowalewski
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Impedance/ Diff pairs/ layer stack up calculator?
It's certainly the tool of choice. Their stackup builder, combined with
their impedance calculator, is the easiest tool of all time to use,
especially when you set up all the prepreg, core and foil libraries from
different laminators.
Building the stackup is super easy with point and click selection. You
get a
superb visual display as you're building it and for documentation when
you're done, and the calculator is as accurate as it's possible to be.
Sure it's expensive, but they have a web based rental plan.
Check out these web demos:
Stackup builder
www.polarinstruments.com/help/sb200v6/lang/en/tutorial/stackup_wizard.ht
m
Impedance control stackup builder:
www.polarinstruments.com/help/sb200v6/lang/en/tutorial/addingstructure.h
tm
Andy Kowalewski
+61 (0)2 9499 4853
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Denis
Lefebvre
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 1:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Impedance/ Diff pairs/ layer stack up calculator?
Bill;
We've been looking at the Polar Instruments Si8000. My understanding is
that
theirs is the "de-facto" standard in impedance calculations and stack-up
generation. This is definitely the "high-end" tool.
Our interest has been prompted by the variety of results we have seen
from
various 'free' calculators vs the results we get back from our
fabricators.
We really want to develop a geometry, by design, that our fabricators
will
agree with.
Denis Lefebvre, CID+
Sr. PCB Designer
Finisar Corp
(408) 542-3832
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Brooks,Bill
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 3:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [DC] Impedance/ Diff pairs/ layer stack up calculator?
We want to evaluate the usefulness of a software tool for calculating
differential pairs, and estimating stack up requirements for multi layer
boards... Primarily to estimate the correct line width and spacing
required
in any given design stack up or material combination.
Can any of you recommend a tool to do this sort of job that you find
useful?
I'd like to look at low, med and high end tools and characterize them
based
on price vs. performance and/or capabilities.
Best regards,
Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer, C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
3030 Enterprise Court, Vista, CA 92083
http://www.dtwc.com <http://www.dtwc.com>
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 e-mail:[log in to unmask]
_______________________________________
Member of the San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council
Communications
Officer, Web Manager http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/
<http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/>
http://pcbwizards.com <http://pcbwizards.com>
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