Well we hope that's not an issue George... and we are working to make it
'not an issue'... but I guess it's always the very last option.
The reason we keep trying is we think there is a way we can all work
together and benefit everyone. As long as the designers want us to keep
trying we will. We are there at the table to protect the interests of our
members and to see to it that they get good value for that membership.
I can tell you from what I see that all of the Executive committee members
feel we need to keep moving forward and getting there is going to require
some compromise on the part of the IPC which I'm sure they think they have
been trying to do. We are not shy about telling it like it is... or bringing
it up before the IPC staff.
We hope we never have to deal with splitting up, I only think that would be
a last resort for any of us. The IPC just needs to take a 'walk in our
shoes' for a while and see things from our point of view before choosing a
path that might not have our member's best interests at heart. So far the
IPC staff has been more than helpful and has worked long hours to make the
programs that we have happen and be successful. And we really appreciate the
work they are doing and want to encourage them to continue that effort
because our members need the programs that are being offered. These are our
programs... and we want them to be successful and valuable to our members.
I know from experience that Designers are an 'independent lot' with little
regard for clubs and associations and it is amazing to me how many of us
have actually found 'common ground' and mutual benefit in the Designers
Council. We run it the way Designers want it run... not the way someone else
would run it... I guess that makes the IPC a little uneasy... so be it. We
aren't here to serve the IPC... we are serving our members and from the
feedback I get, we are doing it very well.
Either way we in the executive committee are most concerned with what the
Designers think and need. How events work out is still to be seen. We are
always open to any suggestions you all think we need to bring before the IPC
or even discuss amongst ourselves... That's why we are there working on it
and as you can see, with great passion too. Don't hesitate to let us know
your concerns... that way it gets to the table and not ignored.
I'm glad we have such a great group of talented folks working as volunteers
in this organization... you know who you are and you do us all proud. Andy
K. is an awesome chairman, and he is a great leader. I'll support him all
the way and in any way I can. He has the designers' interests at heart... as
do we all.
Best regards,
Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
e-mail:[log in to unmask]
http://www.dtwc.com
http://pcbwizards.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: [DC] IPC vs. UP Media
Well said.
And, if might add my own 2 centavos without speaking on behalf of one of the
largest DC chapters around, if the attitude on the part of the IPC as a
whole continues it is going to be harder and harder to keep chapters inside
the IPC fold instead of going independent or joining some other "umbrella"
organization.
--
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, PCB Design Group
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
Phone: 503-627-5272 Fax: 503-627-5587
http://www.tektronix.com http://www.pcb-designer.com
It's my opinion, not Tektronix'
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Brooks,Bill
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 11:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [DC] IPC vs. UP Media
Here's my take on this subject... for what it's worth.
For those of you that have not been able to attend our Education and
executive committee meetings with the IPC staff... this subject has been a
'bone of contention' for far too long. In Arizona last year IPC President
Denny McGuirk gave us (the executive committee members) assurances that he
would support the Designers Council through resources and advertising and
help move things forward for the Designers Council in a more cooperative
spirit. So far we have not been able to get him to approve advertising in UP
Media's magazine, Printed Circuit Design & Manufacturing, but they are
working on getting the Route going again...(which is needed). They did not
set up a Booth at PCB West but who knows maybe they will for PCB East, we
really could not get a commitment to that either... (believe me when I say,
the executive committee members were NOT pleased with any of this news...)
The details of why there was a falling out are still somewhat hazy, perhaps
they would like to clear the air before the 1500 plus active members of the
IPC Designers council so we can make sense of it, because we all suffer when
they, IPC and UP Media don't pool their resources to support us. We need to
be able to afford to get to these shows and our bosses don't give us the
company credit card like the CEO's get in the IPC... its not a simple thing
for us to get away without jeopardizing our jobs to spend what free time we
may have to get more education. We need the support from both organizations
and they damn well better get the message.
As best as I can tell, the IPC was born of a need to support the PCB
manufacturers with standardization of methods, processes, and general
business representation. They have played the roll of manufacturers
representatives for as long as they have been in existence and they still
are. There was an announcement sometime back that they were planning on
changing that roll and becoming a World wide standards organization and
leaving the manufactures rep activity to the different nations that organize
their own regional manufacturers representatives like the following
examples:
CPCA California Printed Circuits Association
http://www.calcircuits.org/
China's Printed Circuit Association.
http://www.cpca.org.cn/en/news/view_article.phtml?ID=131
or Hong Kong Printed Circuits Association
http://www.hkpca.org/
India Printed Circuit Association
http://www.ipcaindia.org/ipca/html/ipca_home.htm
This direction made sense to me... after all they were in the business of
creating specs and bringing consensus between board builders and designers
and assemblers, and this role I think suites them very well. But I have not
seen that demonstrated as yet. It may be that some in the organization do
not change direction too easily and want to maintain their role as
manufacturers reps I think... so they see a competition role with anyone
trying to service the Designers as taking away from their revenue stream...
and I think they would like to control the whole market so that they get
every available 'designer dollar' out there coming into their coffers... to
support their constituents which are the manufacturers of printed circuit
boards. This philosophy is in direct conflict with the wants and needs of
our members. PCB designers need help to do their jobs... not control or
manipulation to support the needs of some other group that would like to
control them. The regular members of the IPC are primarily CEO's of
corporations or officers that can make corporate decisions as I understand
it. This brings about a certain mindset and attitude in the IPC just because
of their demographic makeup. I think that is a large part of the problem.
Now as a designer I resent that attitude. Number one, they are getting
between the folks like Pete who really are most able and willing to serve us
as designers and number two, they aren't doing it for my benefit as a
designer, they want to squeeze out the competition for our attention and the
spending of our precious training dollars. That can't be all there is to it
either... I think that selfishly, but with good intent, the PCB
manufacturers who run the IPC want desperately to educate us on the
difficulties they are faced with in building our sometimes not too easy to
build boards. This affects their business and profits. I think control of
the 'horse' (the PCB Manufacturers needs) is at issue... the 'horse' is
saying, "hey there driver (PCB Designer)... I can get you where you want to
go, but take it easy with the whip and the reigns and make my load lighter
and my travels easier thereby giving you a smoother ride without those nasty
bumps and jogs... Drive me this way or turn me that way and we all are much
happier... and by the way, I want better quality feed and more of it while
you're at it..." :)
Okay from the 'horse's' point of view... I can see why they would be
motivated to want to train us as designers. We certainly have the power to
make their lives miserable or wonderful by what features we use and how we
design our boards... I think we can see that the industry as a whole
benefits from better trained designers. But frankly, they are the 'Jonnie
come lately' guys in this story and PCB Magazine has been playing the role
of 'headmaster' in bringing educational content to designers around the
globe for much longer. In fact Pete and most of his organization are DC
members. When the DC was getting started back in the mid 1990's Pete and his
gang, very unselfishly I might add, were very supportive and helped them get
their feet off the ground with the designers council and its exposure to the
designer community that already was coming to Pete's shows on both coasts of
the USA. You see... we all like Pete, a lot. He has helped us get the
content and information we have needed over the years, and we look to his
publication to get news and tips on design and manufacturing issues on a
monthly basis. We also have gone to his shows on both coasts and benefited
greatly from the networking and activities available from his considerable
investment in our fellow designers interest. We also have come to appreciate
the need for the IPC and their support of us as designers with
specifications and materials that help us get our jobs done and help save
our companies money and make us into heroes... (we like that stuff ... it
gets us pay raises and better offices and the like...)
Frankly designers STILL go to PCB West and East and some of them don't even
know there is a Designers Council, primarily because they have not read much
about it in PCB Magazine now for almost a year or two. I think we need to
voice our disapproval of that policy and 'spank' these guys and tell them to
get back in there and shake hands and get over it... let's get on with the
training and support of the designers... they need us... quit being
unproductive and spiteful and get back to work. The business aspect of this
is secondary to supporting your customers, and family... The Designers.
'Nuff said.
Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
e-mail:[log in to unmask]
http://www.dtwc.com
http://pcbwizards.com
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